In the realm of personal development and social dynamics, the journey towards mastering confidence and charisma can often feel daunting. A recent discussion featuring Chris Williamson and behavioral researcher Vanessa Van Edwards delves into the intricate art of effortless confidence and effective social persuasion. Their conversation not only sheds light on the techniques for making impactful first impressions but also explores the underlying psychology that fuels our social interactions. In this blog post, we’ll fact-check the insights shared in their YouTube dialogue, dissecting the claims and advice provided by both Williamson and Van Edwards to ensure actionable takeaways grounded in research and reality. Join us as we navigate the landscape of social skills, unveiling truths and debunking myths that can enhance our ability to connect with others authentically.

Find a fact check of this transcript on CheckForFacts

Transcript:

[00:00:00,000]: Talk to me about where we should put our hands

[00:00:02,539]: Oh my goodness they should be first things visible

[00:00:05,380]: In fact every time you say hello you should be hi I’m Vanessa so good to see you

[00:00:09,659]: We love a gesture

[00:00:12,060]: It’s funny because there’s a primal part of our brain that knows that our hands are our deadliest weapons

[00:00:18,799]: So even though we think we look at the face like when I ask people where do you look when you first see someone

[00:00:24,079]: People always say same eyes or face sometimes mouth

[00:00:27,860]: And that is the second place we look

[00:00:29,399]: But the first place we always look especially when we’re seeing someone for the first time or in a meeting or for the first interaction is we want to see what is your intention

[00:00:36,959]: And so as humans we will do anything to avoid the most awkward thing in humanity which is are we going to hug

[00:00:43,380]: Are we going to handshake

[00:00:44,099]: Are we going to high five

[00:00:45,439]: Are you withholding anything

[00:00:46,340]: And so part of our brain is always just looking to see if you’re going to handshake high five

[00:00:50,540]: And on Zoom it’s even more confusing because our brain knows that we should see hands but when it can’t it worries

[00:00:57,319]: And that is because part of our brain and our amygdala begins to fire when we can’t see someone’s hands especially when we’re trying to understand them

[00:01:05,699]: And so the best thing you can do is have your hands visible

[00:01:08,099]: That helps with trust

[00:01:09,080]: And the second if you want to get fancy is to actually have them be explanatory which we can talk about if you want to

[00:01:14,739]: Yes tell me explain

[00:01:17,580]: So really really good speakers they know their content so well that they can speak to you with two different modes

[00:01:24,559]: They can speak to you with their words but they can also use their gestures to emphasize underline and outline

[00:01:30,400]: So the best TED Talks you know I love TED Talks

[00:01:33,720]: And my team and I analyzed thousands of hours of TED Talks looking for patterns

[00:01:38,419]: I didn’t understand why everyone who gives a TED Talk is good right

[00:01:43,160]: You’re not invited to give a TED Talk if you’re not good

[00:01:44,580]: And I wondered why do some go viral like millions and millions of views and others by relatively unknown people they get thousands

[00:01:51,580]: And we looked for all these variables gender and color and smiling

[00:01:55,239]: We clocked the amount of time they smiled

[00:01:56,860]: The biggest differentiator was gestures

[00:02:00,480]: The TED Talks that had the most views used an average of 465 gestures in 18 minutes

[00:02:06,419]: We coded all a chunk of TED Talks

[00:02:08,160]: The least popular viewed TED Talks use an average of 272 gestures in 18 minutes

[00:02:13,740]: What’s happening is a really good speaker is making themselves easy to understand by saying if they have three ideas they hold up three

[00:02:22,059]: If they have a really big idea they don’t show that it’s small

[00:02:25,020]: They say that it’s big

[00:02:25,839]: In fact if I were to say I have a really big idea but hold up my finger it’s really small

[00:02:29,979]: You’re more likely to believe my gesture over my words

[00:02:33,380]: And so in this way we have to speak to people on two levels

[00:02:36,820]: We have to show them what we’re saying with our verbal content

[00:02:39,820]: We also have to say I’m going to emphasize and underline my content for you so that you can actually comprehend and outline while I’m speaking

[00:02:46,880]: So it’s almost like we’re giving pictures to our words

[00:02:48,919]: Yeah it’s fascinating that the physical language comes second to the spoken language even though that’s the thing that is usually most front and center

[00:02:59,160]: I think this is why we love emojis right

[00:03:01,399]: Like we are actually quite pictorial like we like to have images

[00:03:04,960]: So you know if I send a text message I’m fine

[00:03:08,339]: My friends are what is she fine

[00:03:10,419]: I don’t know

[00:03:11,600]: Like that doesn’t sound fine

[00:03:13,160]: But if I were to have a little smiley crying face I guess I’m very millennial because I use that crying side face you know that shows look I’m fine

[00:03:21,839]: Ha ha smiling

[00:03:23,139]: But if I were to use I’m fine with the emoji with the circle crazy eyes you’d be like oh no she not fine

[00:03:29,839]: And that’s because we tend to give more weight to the visual and that is I think why we’re speaking in more and more images as we go

[00:03:35,779]: Hand gestures in person is like adding pictures to your book which we all like

[00:03:40,820]: What if someone’s not speaking

[00:03:42,220]: What if somebody is supposed to be just receiving

[00:03:44,380]: Where should our hands go then

[00:03:45,119]: Okay so you can be a charismatic listener

[00:03:48,759]: I think that people there’s a myth about charisma that to be charismatic you have to be the one talking

[00:03:53,679]: To be charismatic you have to be extroverted and bubbly and the life of the party and tell great stories

[00:03:57,919]: That is one kind of flavor of charisma

[00:04:00,199]: But the other flavor of charisma is actually being an excellent listener

[00:04:04,020]: In fact quiet contemplative introverts are a beaut they’re very charismatic

[00:04:08,679]: So while you’re listening you actually don’t want to use gestures

[00:04:11,740]: You want to use nonverbal warmth cues

[00:04:15,020]: Nonverbal warmth cues are ways you signal to the other person wow I am so deeply with you that I want you to keep going and tell me more and I’m even going to partake in your warmth

[00:04:23,959]: So my favorites my favorite things to do while listening and by the way when you’re listening with with just with your hands I like to keep my hands as still as possible but still visible

[00:04:32,000]: And that could even be like a steeple

[00:04:34,140]: You know I love listening with a steeple

[00:04:35,739]: You know when you put your the fingers at your tips of your fingers together and sort of a church steeple that’s a very a power pose for the hands

[00:04:42,720]: You can put them in a steeple or have them at rest

[00:04:45,660]: More importantly though is actually your head behavior when we’re listening to someone

[00:04:49,140]: So a triple nod a slow triple nod it looks like this

[00:04:52,720]: Hmm

[00:04:53,299]: Hmm

[00:04:53,640]: You do it really well

[00:04:55,399]: They have found that the other person speaks 67 longer when you do a slow triple nod

[00:05:01,940]: It’s like the other person saying please keep going tell me more

[00:05:05,059]: It’s like a nonverbal dot dot dot

[00:05:06,299]: So I would recommend hands still visible at rest occasional slow triple nod

[00:05:11,019]: You can even do one of my favorite cues which is called a lower lid flex

[00:05:15,019]: So if you flex your lower lids at me yeah great

[00:05:19,320]: If when you do this this is across cultures

[00:05:22,040]: When humans flex their lower lid it actually minimizes the amount of light that is entering into your eye which allows you to see detail

[00:05:29,839]: So for example if someone’s really like squinting to try to see something they’re trying to make their vision sharper

[00:05:34,920]: In conversation this is a way of showing I am listening so deeply that I’m trying to see every detail

[00:05:41,279]: Hmm

[00:05:41,720]: I have a theory so you know I in the name of science I love doing research experiments in my lab

[00:05:46,299]: We looked at the 50th sexiest men alive people issue

[00:05:51,059]: And I noticed that so many of the men were showing a hardened lower lid

[00:05:57,559]: And that is because I think we find it attractive when someone is so engaged they’re trying to see us deeply

[00:06:02,519]: It’s sort of that blue steel look

[00:06:04,100]: I think that that’s why he did it in Zoolander

[00:06:06,459]: This is really helpful for two things

[00:06:08,279]: One when you want to show that you’re deeply listening you can harden your lower lid

[00:06:11,940]: Ah yes I see you

[00:06:14,440]: There are times if you see it on someone else it could mean they’re deeply listening but it also could mean that they’re trying to figure something out or they’re scrutinizing

[00:06:23,179]: So I have noticed that occasionally in negotiations or presentations if I see someone do that lower lid flex at me I’ll say does this all make sense

[00:06:33,160]: Are we all good here

[00:06:34,320]: Chris do you have any questions for me

[00:06:36,239]: Because I noticed their brain just went into a deep listening mode

[00:06:39,440]: And there was one time where it actually I I uncovered a confusion that the boss was having right in the moment right there that if I hadn’t have clarified that it would have messed up the entire pitch

[00:06:49,320]: It would have messed up the entire pitch

[00:06:50,679]: So look out for it as well as making sure someone’s on the same page as you

[00:06:55,000]: Yeah because they’ve become more intense

[00:06:57,059]: Why

[00:06:57,459]: What is it that they’re doing

[00:06:58,220]: Is it they’re paying more attention or is it they’re maybe a bit confused

[00:07:00,660]: Talking about giving presentations going to do public speaking what are some ways to build up energy and positivity before going out and speaking

[00:07:09,200]: Have you got a little priming process that you go through a Tony Robbins jumping up and down

[00:07:13,799]: What’s that look like

[00:07:15,279]: You know I I don’t jump up and down

[00:07:17,660]: I try to change my chemical cocktail

[00:07:21,579]: So internally I know that well I know that my emotions are contagious

[00:07:25,859]: We like certain speakers because they bring confidence to the stage and we love to be around winners

[00:07:31,859]: We love winners

[00:07:32,980]: We want to catch their winning attitude

[00:07:34,920]: So I know that before I head a stage before I lead a meeting I want to have my winning cocktail going

[00:07:39,820]: I want to have a lot of testosterone

[00:07:41,779]: This is for both men and women

[00:07:43,000]: I want to have as much dopamine as possible because dopamine also serves me

[00:07:46,579]: just very I’m going down to the bare basics here

[00:07:50,320]: Testosterone does a lot of things in our body but for performance purposes for presentations it makes me think more clearly

[00:07:56,500]: It makes me more eloquent

[00:07:58,040]: It makes me have less dry mouth

[00:07:59,760]: It makes me have more stamina

[00:08:01,459]: Dopamine it’s the chemical of pleasure

[00:08:04,059]: We do it makes us feel good

[00:08:05,700]: But the reason I like dopamine is actually because it gives us motivation

[00:08:11,320]: They found that if they can gift dopamine in an interaction people are more likely to open up more likely to answer questions more likely to work hard

[00:08:18,600]: So I’m trying to stimulate that for myself

[00:08:21,679]: Dopamine testosterone

[00:08:22,679]: If I’m anxious like if I’m very nervous maybe a little bit of serotonin to try to calm myself down

[00:08:26,380]: Okay so what are the things that immediately trigger those very quickly in my pre success routine

[00:08:31,559]: The first one is music

[00:08:33,940]: So there are certain songs especially for me everyone has their own

[00:08:37,400]: I have like a pump up playlist they’re songs that specifically remind me of times I’ve won or just give me that oh like this is such a pleasure to listen to

[00:08:46,739]: So I’m listening to the right kind of music

[00:08:49,280]: Second I am very purposeful with the verbal cues I use before I do anything

[00:08:55,020]: And there was a study that changed my perspective on this

[00:08:57,580]: So what they did is they brought participants into their lab and they gave them intelligence tests like basic intelligence tasks

[00:09:03,900]: They split them up into two different groups

[00:09:05,619]: The first group took the intelligence task and they read a set of very sterile directions the kind of directions we read all the time

[00:09:12,679]: please complete the following test to the best of your ability

[00:09:15,700]: The second group they wondered if they sprinkled in what are called achievement oriented words words like success win master achieve could they actually change the participant’s behavior

[00:09:27,940]: So they sprinkled in three or four of these words

[00:09:31,000]: you know try to win the following answers to the best of your ability

[00:09:33,599]: If you achieve success right they just very sprinkled them into the direction

[00:09:37,539]: Everyone who took and read the win oriented directions performed better on the task but more importantly spent double the amount of time on average working on the task and enjoyed the task more

[00:09:51,440]: I want that before I hit a stage

[00:09:53,619]: I want to actually enjoy my time on stage so that I have a lot of energy

[00:09:57,440]: I want to work at it

[00:09:58,419]: I get the gift of feeling like a winner

[00:10:01,059]: Once our body feels like a winner our brain acts like it

[00:10:03,619]: So I’m trying to do all those things

[00:10:05,080]: So I’m using a lot of win words like I literally have a win routine or a pump up routine

[00:10:09,880]: I listen to that playlist

[00:10:10,840]: I also try to laugh

[00:10:12,500]: Like even before our interview I watched my favorite comedian to just like get me laughing get me open

[00:10:21,179]: Laughing opens up your body

[00:10:22,619]: It opens up your face

[00:10:23,460]: It makes you breathe more

[00:10:25,260]: It lowers my vocal register which for women is especially important but for both men and women that’s like magic when you’re presenting

[00:10:33,039]: So when it comes to the verbal cues you said that you’re being purposeful with the ones that you’re using

[00:10:37,539]: What’s that mean

[00:10:38,419]: That you’re talking to people backstage and you’re just making sure that you’re sprinkling positivity

[00:10:44,619]: Yes

[00:10:44,780]: So yes I actually think that chitchat backstage is really important

[00:10:49,380]: I was just talking about this with another speaker and he said to me oh I you know I’m really in my head before and I don’t want to talk to anyone

[00:10:55,340]: I said actually like I try to make really positive small talk with everyone

[00:10:59,619]: And if someone says like oh were you nervous

[00:11:01,840]: No I’m excited

[00:11:03,739]: I literally will try to reframe any butterflies that I feel any like tremors that I have is this is excitement

[00:11:10,859]: This is not nervousness

[00:11:12,059]: Nervousness and excitement feel very similar in the body right

[00:11:15,020]: They do very similar things

[00:11:16,200]: So I am telling my brain I’m excited

[00:11:18,400]: You’re excited

[00:11:19,059]: I’m excited

[00:11:19,539]: I’m excited to share

[00:11:20,239]: I’m excited to teach

[00:11:21,119]: When someone when I’m talking backstage I’ll be like what are you most excited about

[00:11:24,440]: What speaker did you like the best

[00:11:26,239]: What what do you think is the big people’s biggest goal today

[00:11:28,260]: I’m using words like goal win achieve success excited

[00:11:31,080]: A really great study

[00:11:32,320]: I love a study if you’ll forgive me but I think this is just so good

[00:11:35,679]: This was by Alison Woodbrooks at Harvard

[00:11:39,320]: She made students poor students sing don’t stop believing into a karaoke machine that rated them for accuracy like accuracy of singing

[00:11:47,419]: These students had no singing background

[00:11:49,940]: One group they just sung control group

[00:11:52,840]: The second group she had them say out loud no matter how they felt I’m nervous then sing

[00:11:58,979]: And the last group had to say I’m excited no matter how they actually felt and sing

[00:12:03,799]: The group that said I’m excited had the most accurate singing over 80 accuracy in their singing

[00:12:10,460]: Even though they had no trained singers the control group was next

[00:12:13,479]: I think the the I’m nervous group sung with under 60 accuracy

[00:12:17,539]: In other words you can have a self fulfilling prophecy

[00:12:20,559]: If you’re about to go up and you’re like oh my gosh I’m so nervous

[00:12:23,700]: I’m so nervous

[00:12:24,580]: You are going to make yourself think like a loser

[00:12:26,880]: You’re going to have more cortisol

[00:12:28,179]: You’re going to have more adrenaline and those things don’t serve you

[00:12:30,460]: So you are better reframing as like I am excited

[00:12:32,960]: Like this is my moment

[00:12:34,299]: I’m going to win

[00:12:36,239]: So songs that remind you of times you won chitchat backstage with positive verbal cues and laugh lots watch a comedian

[00:12:42,440]: Yes exactly

[00:12:43,739]: Yes

[00:12:44,020]: And then just step out on them

[00:12:45,280]: And you know a little power posing is always good right

[00:12:47,380]: The reason I like laughing is because it kind of broadens your body

[00:12:49,760]: It’s I also sometimes see people pacing backstage

[00:12:52,059]: You know I go I do a lot of events and I see other speakers sometimes and they’re like they’re hovered over their notes right

[00:12:57,440]: They’re like hunched over their notes

[00:12:58,679]: They’re looking at their little tiny phone and they’re like practicing in like this very small tight contracted way

[00:13:05,919]: And they get on stage every single time

[00:13:08,179]: Whenever I see somebody that they get on stage from this very contracted position and they always either start with vocal fry

[00:13:14,080]: So hi good morning

[00:13:15,739]: Good morning

[00:13:16,440]: Good morning

[00:13:17,419]: Good morning

[00:13:18,960]: Because they’ve actually contracted their vocal power

[00:13:21,320]: They have less breath

[00:13:22,000]: It’s their first word

[00:13:23,739]: They lose all their vocal charisma like really right off the bat or they start with the question inflection

[00:13:29,580]: Hi my name is Vanessa

[00:13:31,659]: So happy to be here

[00:13:33,419]: And today we’re going to talk about growth

[00:13:36,260]: And that is because they were literally in and I don’t say this without some backing a loser position

[00:13:42,760]: Research from the University of British Columbia studied winning athletes and losing athletes

[00:13:47,260]: This is a cross Olympic trial

[00:13:49,799]: So across around the world losing athletes contract

[00:13:53,080]: When they lose a race they tilt their head down

[00:13:55,400]: They roll their shoulders in

[00:13:56,599]: They take up as little space as possible

[00:13:58,380]: That restricts their oxygen

[00:13:59,760]: That lowers their testosterone

[00:14:02,520]: It literally makes them feel worse

[00:14:04,000]: Whereas winners take up as much space as possible right

[00:14:06,320]: They’re super broad

[00:14:07,440]: They tilt their head up

[00:14:08,979]: So laughing is a sort of comfortable way for me to go into winter body language

[00:14:13,280]: I do think it would be a little weird if I was like stomping around backstage you know like Rocky

[00:14:18,260]: I could do it but I think it would also create a little bit of weirdness

[00:14:21,460]: So if you can broaden your body that’s why I think Tony Robbins jumps

[00:14:25,520]: He’s actually trying to get all that adrenaline out but testosterone in that winning kind of open big spatial take up

[00:14:33,080]: So if you can take up space to like you know a chair with armrests big broad couch all my chairs in my office you can’t see it right now

[00:14:40,659]: They all have armrests

[00:14:41,940]: Whenever I have someone a client come over they’re always sitting in big broad chairs

[00:14:45,119]: That really does affect that feedback in our body

[00:14:47,659]: How much truth is there in power poses

[00:14:49,520]: I thought they got replication crisis into oblivion

[00:14:52,059]: Man did she

[00:14:52,840]: She got in trouble

[00:14:54,080]: She got in trouble

[00:14:54,640]: Yes she had some statistics

[00:14:55,919]: She’s said that she’s replicated it now

[00:14:57,640]: And I really respect Amy Cuddy’s work

[00:15:00,760]: There is some truth to power posing because we know that winners do it right

[00:15:06,179]: So we know that winners across genders when they feel pride they take up space

[00:15:11,659]: This is an innate response in humans

[00:15:14,080]: Does it work backwards

[00:15:15,559]: We think so

[00:15:17,179]: We think that we can take the pride of the pose of a winner and then kind of change those chemicals

[00:15:23,059]: Is it the fastest way

[00:15:24,640]: Maybe not

[00:15:25,260]: Is it the only way

[00:15:26,039]: Maybe not

[00:15:26,460]: But there is more and more science to prove that it’s true

[00:15:30,080]: And she’s been working on replicating it ever since her mishap

[00:15:33,979]: Okay let’s say people are sat down meeting podcast dinner

[00:15:41,539]: What are the do’s and don’ts when we’re sat down

[00:15:43,580]: Oh my goodness

[00:15:44,719]: Okay so remember that when you’re seated you can still look very very confident and powerful

[00:15:49,059]: The biggest thing you can do when you’re seated from a nonverbal should we talk nonverbal or verbal or both

[00:15:53,760]: Both

[00:15:54,340]: Okay we’ll do nonverbal because we were just talking about it

[00:15:57,119]: One is you want to angle your torso towards the person you’re speaking with especially your camera

[00:16:03,559]: The biggest mistake that I see on Zoom is someone has their camera here but their screen is angled off

[00:16:12,919]: So while they’re typing and taking notes their entire body and their face is actually angled somewhere else and they just glance over at the camera

[00:16:21,340]: It is almost impossible to feel like you have a really good connection with someone when you are not physically aligned with them

[00:16:27,780]: So when I’m on the same nonverbal page as you our toes our torso our head are angled towards each other

[00:16:32,960]: We literally feel like we’re on the same page

[00:16:35,840]: Like physically we feel like we’re on the same page

[00:16:37,460]: So wherever you’re seated I like like a swivel chair you know or if I’m at a restaurant with someone and they put us kind of kitty corner I will like angle my chair so that I’m angled more towards them

[00:16:47,020]: So one try to get on a physical same page

[00:16:50,359]: Second this is a harder one but I think it’s fun to talk about which is I try to mirror the person that I’m sitting with physically and verbally

[00:17:00,159]: That is why my way of showing respect

[00:17:02,340]: So for example if I sit down with someone who is a really fast talker really high energy lots of hand gestures I’ll kind of dial up my physical energy

[00:17:11,900]: I’m leaning in

[00:17:12,959]: I’m using more gestures

[00:17:14,300]: I’m using more facial expressions

[00:17:15,599]: On the other hand if I’m with someone who’s quite stoic maybe more of a slow talker maybe they’re more purposeful

[00:17:24,439]: They don’t use a lot of gestures

[00:17:26,060]: I also slow myself down slow down my gestures because we do feel like we like to be around people who are like us who have similar communication styles

[00:17:34,400]: And so that’s the next thing you can do is very subtly and I wouldn’t mimic them but try to match them with a thermostat try to get on their temperature

[00:17:42,699]: What about crossing arms hands on table stuff like that

[00:17:47,920]: Okay so when we talk about blocking blocking is when any barrier is between your body and mine

[00:17:54,300]: And typically instinctively this is like back from our caveman days

[00:17:57,920]: We don’t like when someone is blocking because we feel like it’s a barrier between you and me that I might not trust you

[00:18:03,640]: Research this is actually more important

[00:18:05,520]: I want people to perceive you as open and definitely this is very clear in the research people rate folks with crossed arms as closed and closed minded right

[00:18:16,500]: So you are going to be rated as less charismatic if you have crossed arms even if you’re cold

[00:18:20,339]: Doesn’t matter the reason

[00:18:22,880]: they’ve rated videos and job interviews and on We do not like barriers

[00:18:26,739]: But more importantly for me what really convinced me because I do sometimes like to cross my arms is you become more closed minded

[00:18:35,280]: They have found that when they ask people to come up with creative ideas but they’re crossing their arms they come up with less creative ideas

[00:18:44,420]: So literally closed body equals closed mind

[00:18:47,560]: When I’m in a meeting or a date or presentation or whatever I want to be as creative as I possibly can

[00:18:51,800]: I want to be big thinking

[00:18:53,040]: And so I know that the smaller my body is the more blocking I have the worse that’s going to be

[00:18:57,160]: So open body I like visible hands obviously

[00:19:01,439]: And I also think that the more you can lean that’s another warmth cue

[00:19:06,040]: So when we really like something we want to lean closer towards it

[00:19:09,260]: We want to it’s actually our five senses

[00:19:11,079]: We want to see it smell it touch it taste it

[00:19:15,400]: We want to do our five senses

[00:19:16,619]: I don’t know if we want to taste each other but we want to get closer to it

[00:19:19,060]: We like things

[00:19:19,760]: We want to get close to them

[00:19:20,800]: So you want to do the same thing

[00:19:22,199]: If you really like someone’s idea wow tell me more

[00:19:25,500]: Lean in towards it

[00:19:26,079]: If you really like someone oh my gosh it’s so good to see you right

[00:19:29,660]: Leaning in towards them

[00:19:30,520]: It’s like a nonverbal bolding of like I like you so much

[00:19:34,699]: I like this idea so much

[00:19:36,000]: I physically want to get closer

[00:19:37,520]: It works on camera too which is really nice

[00:19:39,520]: And also makes me feel more engaged

[00:19:41,219]: Like when I leaned into you I was like oh yeah I do like this tip

[00:19:45,260]: Like it was like a trick for me even internally just now

[00:19:48,680]: What about hands on face hands around face hands on mouth

[00:19:52,862]: Research from Cornell looked at four untrustworthy behaviors behaviors that when people see them they immediately feel a little bit of untrust or mistrust

[00:20:03,242]: One of them was hands touching face

[00:20:05,622]: That was one of them

[00:20:06,882]: So research says that when someone is touching their face we typically don’t like it

[00:20:11,782]: But I want to add a little caveat here

[00:20:13,482]: There are different ways of doing this

[00:20:14,802]: For example it can be quite pensive to hold your chin very still and think while holding

[00:20:21,842]: When you are rubbing your face so rubbing your chin biting your nails you know rubbing at your eyes totally different

[00:20:30,062]: Why

[00:20:32,102]: Liars often touch their mouth and their eyes

[00:20:35,202]: They also touch their nose

[00:20:36,762]: So lie detection research I think these research communities were acting independently of each other

[00:20:42,562]: But yes as humans we see someone touching their face as untrustworthy

[00:20:47,482]: Why

[00:20:47,802]: In the lie detection community research has found that liars are literally trying to hold things in

[00:20:54,202]: So liars will often cover their mouth because like instinctively they’re trying to like don’t say it don’t say it don’t say it

[00:20:59,462]: You might even see like if you watch Bill Clinton’s testimony during the Monica Lewinsky trial which I’ve coded in depth he literally does a shush gesture to himself as he’s waiting for his question that he’s about to lie on

[00:21:11,062]: Like literally he’s holding a shush gesture up

[00:21:13,702]: Also we tend to mouth block is like shh it’s gonna get me in trouble

[00:21:17,182]: Do not say it

[00:21:18,682]: We also and this also happened in the Monica Lewinsky trial I believe Alan Hirsch is the researcher he counted the number of times that Clinton touched his nose and he found that it was like 8x times when he was lying versus his truthful answers

[00:21:32,402]: This is because there is a little bit of a Pinocchio’s nose

[00:21:35,662]: They found that we have tissue in our nose that tingles sometimes when we feel that tingling in their nose

[00:21:48,422]: So they touch their nose

[00:21:50,002]: We instinctively know this

[00:21:50,622]: And the last big one is eye blocking

[00:21:52,782]: When we don’t want to see something like I’m embarrassed I don’t like it we will try to cover our eyes close our eyes because we are ashamed of it

[00:22:01,782]: So shame or guilt they’re very close they’re not the same thing will often cover our eyes

[00:22:06,422]: So I’m pretty against face touching as only if it’s still

[00:22:11,502]: You know if you’re pensively holding a chin pose okay otherwise I would say do not make someone think you’re a liar right

[00:22:21,042]: Do not accidentally do that

[00:22:22,482]: Oh I should make a note

[00:22:24,002]: There is no Pinocchio’s nose

[00:22:25,262]: There’s no one cue that makes someone a liar

[00:22:28,422]: And so these are like one off cues

[00:22:30,282]: Like if someone you’re talking to someone and they haven’t touched their nose once but all of a sudden you’re like so what do you think of the new girl

[00:22:36,102]: And they’re like um yeah you know she’s great

[00:22:41,442]: That’s when I would be like why did that just happen around that weird verbal

[00:22:45,722]: So you’re looking for clusters of red flags when we’re talking about lie detection that are signals of shame or guilt or fear

[00:22:52,502]: What were the other three actions

[00:22:55,002]: Okay so touching the face touching the stomach so they like rubbing or touching your torso or your stomach again a blocking behavior right

[00:23:01,482]: Like instinctively we know that

[00:23:03,842]: Ringing or rubbing hands so knuckle cracking wringing hands movement around hands self touch which makes us nervous and blocking behaviors right

[00:23:15,482]: So like any kind of like sudden crossing or blocking

[00:23:18,602]: What is it that we’re doing

[00:23:19,322]: Are we trying to self soothe there in some way

[00:23:22,442]: Yes and that’s the problem with lie detection and why it’s not a true science is it’s very hard to separate anxiety from guilt

[00:23:30,362]: If someone’s accusing you of lying you’re gonna be anxious and you’re gonna do some of those behaviors

[00:23:35,502]: We’re example we rub our neck right to like calm ourselves down

[00:23:39,222]: That reminds us of being a baby when our parents rubbed us

[00:23:41,902]: We bite our pens or our fingers as a pacifying gesture because it reminds us of sucking at the boob or you know a pacifier

[00:23:50,542]: They’re all instinctive but it’s hard to know the difference between guilt and anxiety

[00:23:55,102]: Okay talk to me about detecting lying then

[00:23:56,902]: What’s true and what’s false

[00:23:58,822]: Okay so there are statistical cues to deceit

[00:24:02,462]: These are things that liars typically do but there’s no one cue

[00:24:07,002]: So the way that I do lie detection the way that I teach lie detection is I think of it as you have to know someone’s baseline before you can know what they do when they lie

[00:24:16,022]: So we can actually do this together

[00:24:17,442]: I think that everyone should know their lying red flags

[00:24:19,882]: Every single person on this earth has things they typically do when they lie

[00:24:24,542]: It is good to know what yours are

[00:24:27,122]: You know what yours are

[00:24:27,542]: So I’m gonna help you figure out what those are

[00:24:29,382]: You ready

[00:24:30,122]: Okay

[00:24:30,462]: Okay so here’s what I want you to do

[00:24:32,522]: You can do this after the interview okay

[00:24:35,022]: First you have to figure out what your baseline is

[00:24:36,842]: So I want you to turn on your camera and I want you to say your name your age and then I want you to say so like on your phone or whatever then I want you to tell me what you had for breakfast yesterday

[00:24:47,682]: This is how you look when you’re recalling something

[00:24:50,742]: So Chris just think about what you had for breakfast yesterday

[00:24:54,362]: Okay so you looked up and to your right

[00:24:56,722]: Yes

[00:24:57,262]: Yes

[00:24:57,402]: Okay so that means that when Chris is recalling a truth you tend to look up to your right right

[00:25:04,662]: So by the way there was a huge myth back in the day that like if you look up to the left you’re lying

[00:25:09,762]: If you look up no people do look up when they lie but they also look up when they’re recalling they’re remembering

[00:25:15,902]: So we would know that Chris when you’re recalling a truthful thing you tend to look up to the right and maybe down over to the side

[00:25:22,582]: Also I wasn’t seeing your whole body but I don’t want to know your hand gestures

[00:25:26,042]: I want to see your feet

[00:25:27,082]: And then I would also ask um I would hear verbal answer

[00:25:31,402]: Do you use ums or likes

[00:25:33,222]: Are you using a high voice like this

[00:25:35,062]: Are you using a low low voice like this

[00:25:37,262]: I don’t know where you went

[00:25:38,482]: So record your response to that

[00:25:40,682]: Code it vocally non verbally verbally

[00:25:44,282]: What are you doing

[00:25:45,562]: Then what I want you to do is I want that’s your baseline your recalling baseline

[00:25:49,722]: Then what I want you to do is tell me your most embarrassing story

[00:25:54,622]: Pretend you’re talking to me right

[00:25:55,982]: Okay

[00:25:56,282]: We do these by the way in our lab we do these

[00:25:59,762]: When you tell me your most embarrassing story I want you to kind of relive it

[00:26:03,162]: Like I want you to like recall the humiliation that you felt during that embarrassing story

[00:26:08,902]: I’m trying to get your body a little bit nervous right

[00:26:11,582]: I’m trying to see your nervous baseline

[00:26:14,582]: Code it vocally verbally audibly

[00:26:17,602]: What are you doing

[00:26:19,142]: You’ll see on our we’ve done this with hundreds of different participants

[00:26:23,382]: Movement goes up

[00:26:24,582]: Typically people touch their face

[00:26:26,202]: They’re using more gestures or they go really stoic deer in the headlights like very very still whites of eyes showing recounting it like they wish they were dead

[00:26:37,482]: It tends to be either one

[00:26:39,062]: So record yourself

[00:26:40,842]: It’s your nervous baseline your nervous tells and you should know what your nervous tells are as well because I’ll tell you what you’re probably doing them during your presentations and you should know how to counteract them

[00:26:49,702]: Or like I know what my nervous tells are

[00:26:51,442]: I work very hard to keep them under wraps because I don’t want to infect you with nervousness

[00:26:55,462]: The last one the hardest one

[00:26:57,762]: I want you to make up an embarrassing story that did not happen to you

[00:27:02,182]: And I want you to tell it to me the camera trying to convince me that it’s real

[00:27:08,102]: So pretend like this was you

[00:27:09,442]: It cannot be a real story

[00:27:10,862]: What we’re doing I don’t want you to rehearse this ahead of time

[00:27:13,502]: Your body is going to leak deception tells

[00:27:16,042]: It’s going to leak this is not true

[00:27:17,922]: You’re going to see what you look like when you’re trying to come up with a lie

[00:27:21,042]: Those tells are your lying tells

[00:27:23,962]: And the goal is to make lying tells into recalling tells

[00:27:29,542]: Well depends on what your goals are

[00:27:31,762]: My goals are to look less nervous

[00:27:34,022]: Those are my goals

[00:27:34,522]: I don’t want you to teach it

[00:27:35,402]: I don’t want to teach you to be a better liar although you could do that with this

[00:27:38,882]: My goals really are just to make sure you’re not accidentally leaking nervousness

[00:27:42,442]: So many really smart people that I work with most of my students are like super smart high achievers off the charts but they don’t know how to present themselves well

[00:27:52,022]: And my number one goal is your ideas are great

[00:27:55,242]: Don’t ruin them with nervous cues

[00:27:56,902]: So that’s my goal is that you’re identifying your nervous cues so you can kind of displace them or stop them

[00:28:01,842]: That is the first step for yourself

[00:28:03,722]: You also can practice this with your friend’s partner

[00:28:06,602]: Remember bring them in on it

[00:28:08,002]: Do it with them

[00:28:09,242]: You will then see your partner’s nervous tells and your partner’s lying tells

[00:28:12,862]: You will see your kid’s nervous tells and your kid’s lying tells

[00:28:15,522]: And that’s when we begin to look for red flags

[00:28:18,322]: So there are certain cues touching the nose touching the face eye blocking

[00:28:24,002]: Another really big lying red flag is people drop pronouns

[00:28:28,442]: This is called statement analysis

[00:28:30,362]: This is an email

[00:28:31,722]: So there’s some really interesting science about lie detection in emails which I’m working on currently

[00:28:36,982]: When we lie we don’t want it associated with us

[00:28:40,762]: Lying feels dirty

[00:28:42,322]: Lying feels bad

[00:28:43,242]: So what we do without realizing it is we drop the personal pronoun

[00:28:47,382]: So instead of I’m running late we say running late sorry

[00:28:52,142]: Instead of saying I didn’t see your email we say must have gone to spam

[00:28:57,922]: Instead of saying my car broke down we say oh got broken down

[00:29:02,442]: Be there in a bit

[00:29:03,702]: So if you see lack of pronouns again nothing’s a definite lie

[00:29:08,302]: It just when I see it over and over again in emails or in a certain area of conversation I’m always like hmm why are they using distancing language separating themselves from the actual content

[00:29:17,962]: The other big lying tell that I like to share with people is the disgust micro expression

[00:29:24,202]: So disgust is when we raise our nose up and we crinkle our nose we flash the upper whites of our teeth like it eh you can try it eh yeah

[00:29:34,322]: Disgust is when we have this a lot of activation around our nose and our upper lip

[00:29:38,662]: We do not make that expression lightly like that’s a very weird thing to do with our face

[00:29:43,222]: And we often see it if someone smells something bad or tastes something bad

[00:29:46,602]: You also see it with liars

[00:29:48,922]: In our research we asked people to play two truths and a lie with us

[00:29:52,742]: So like tell two true statements in one line

[00:29:54,822]: We found that lying makes us feel dirty like a little bit self disgusted

[00:29:59,142]: And so sometimes people will show disgust while they’re talking while they’re sharing the lie

[00:30:04,042]: So it looks like this if I were to say um so what do you think of the new guy

[00:30:09,342]: Oh yeah you know he’s he’s great

[00:30:12,462]: He’s great

[00:30:13,222]: And they have the disgust showing in their face

[00:30:16,202]: It usually means that someone is does not feel good about something but they are afraid to share the truth

[00:30:21,922]: So disgust is another one of the other statistical cues you will see misaligned like misaligned nonverbal and verbal

[00:30:27,722]: You mentioned there about smart people sometimes struggling with being charismatic

[00:30:31,902]: Explain that to me

[00:30:34,922]: Smart people often have the mistaken belief that book smarts equal people smarts

[00:30:40,982]: They hope that all their hard work and great ideas and brilliance and talent will translate because it’s so good

[00:30:47,602]: The problem is what the research shows is that competence without warmth leaves us feeling suspicious

[00:30:55,162]: So you can have the best idea in the world but if you don’t know how to share it with warmth likeability trust people cannot believe it

[00:31:03,162]: Doesn’t matter how good the idea is

[00:31:04,982]: The kind of famous example I share this in my book is Jamie Siminoff

[00:31:09,362]: He’s a founder of Ring

[00:31:11,442]: He went on Shark Tank and Ring is that video doorbell company

[00:31:15,182]: Ring is literally a billion dollar idea

[00:31:17,082]: Like he went on to sell Ring for billions of dollars

[00:31:19,662]: He went on to get Shaq Richard Branson incredible investors

[00:31:23,402]: What most people don’t know is he went on Shark Tank pitched a billion dollar idea and got no deals

[00:31:29,842]: Like a complete failure of a pitch

[00:31:32,222]: Tons of pushback

[00:31:32,862]: They didn’t believe him

[00:31:33,342]: They didn’t like him

[00:31:34,222]: Why

[00:31:34,962]: He relied too much on his book smarts

[00:31:37,682]: He had a dialed pitch

[00:31:39,302]: The numbers were good

[00:31:40,462]: The words were good but he looked scared and he also went really mute with his nonverbal cues

[00:31:47,702]: Muting in itself is a nonverbal cue and smart people think I don’t need to think about all this body language stuff

[00:31:53,242]: I don’t need to worry about my vocal power

[00:31:55,162]: My ideas are strong enough

[00:31:56,522]: So Jamie was delivering a great pitch verbally but he looked completely mute

[00:32:02,782]: And so the sharks were like I can’t get a read on this guy

[00:32:06,882]: And they would not invest

[00:32:08,922]: And so for smart people they have to learn no cues is bad cues

[00:32:13,262]: The wrong cues are even worse

[00:32:15,062]: So how do you frame your ideas your competence with warmth with trust with likeability

[00:32:21,122]: That balance is really hard for my smart students

[00:32:25,202]: Wow

[00:32:25,222]: Yeah it’s interesting that it gets in the way

[00:32:27,562]: It’s as much a block as it is an enabler

[00:32:31,842]: I had a great conversation recently with William von Hippel and he was talking about this tension between warmth and competence

[00:32:38,122]: I know that’s something that you talk about a lot and it was interesting to see an anthropologist talk about it as well

[00:32:43,602]: Yes

[00:32:44,202]: People that are competent and demonstrate competence is often seen as being more cold

[00:32:48,622]: People that are warm are seen as less competent

[00:32:50,522]: And you’ve got this sort of ruthless tension between the two

[00:32:53,082]: Yes

[00:32:53,382]: And I think also we forget that highly charismatic people are a blend of both but they also use warmth and competence like a thermostat

[00:33:04,282]: And so we have two goals

[00:33:06,702]: One is making sure that you’re showcasing both verbally as well as non verbally

[00:33:10,702]: So even in my emails we do an email audit with our students where we have them literally calculate the number of warm cues and competent cues in their emails

[00:33:19,202]: Because your emails are a big part of your communication especially nowadays we’re constantly online

[00:33:23,482]: So one you want to be both

[00:33:24,722]: But the real charismatic people really good ones if they know they’re a competent person they dial up the competence

[00:33:32,502]: If they know they’re emailing a warm person they dial up the warmth

[00:33:35,642]: And we can do this with very specific cues

[00:33:38,202]: Emojis exclamation points words like yay wow fab and whoop

[00:33:43,002]: Very warm right

[00:33:44,602]: It’s like a little button

[00:33:45,762]: You can just sprinkle them in

[00:33:46,702]: It’s like warm warm warm warm warm

[00:33:49,142]: Whereas competence numbers data graphs percent words like power through efficient capable master

[00:33:56,622]: Those are all very competent cues

[00:33:58,542]: And so we can be in control of how people perceive us

[00:34:02,282]: But also more importantly we can also infect people with warmth and competence

[00:34:06,662]: The reason why warmth and competence is important is because very charismatic people are making other people feel more charismatic

[00:34:15,142]: You show up as warm and competent you make everyone in the room more warm and competent

[00:34:20,942]: That’s why we like highly charismatic people is we want to catch their warmth

[00:34:25,642]: We want to infect their competence

[00:34:27,662]: So if you are using warm and competent verbal cues in your emails you are literally gifting warmth and competence to everyone gets them which means you get better replies faster replies and you become more memorable

[00:34:40,862]: Research proves that we can produce warmth and competence with the kinds of words that we use

[00:34:45,442]: And that is super empowering not only to us but to What about in person competent people that want to feel more warm and warm people that want to appear more competent

[00:34:52,842]: Okay so if you want to appeal more warm we talked about one of the cues which is a nod right

[00:34:59,302]: Immediately that slow triple nod is high in warmth

[00:35:02,242]: A head tilt is also very high in warmth

[00:35:04,542]: So when we expose our ear universally it shows that we’re trying to hear better

[00:35:08,702]: That’s also a warmth cue

[00:35:09,962]: They’ve found that if I were to deliver bad news to you with a head tilt it softens the blow

[00:35:15,462]: Like it actually feels a little bit better because I I’m giving more empathy

[00:35:18,882]: So a slight head tilt it’s also works really well in a profile picture

[00:35:22,962]: So if you are a highly competent leader and you’re like I need to dial up my warmth consider adding visible hands so like not so close to the face as well as possibly a head tilt

[00:35:33,542]: The worst profile pictures I don’t know why this is all over LinkedIn is like people have their arms crossed and they’re like leaning back and looking over their shoulder

[00:35:41,902]: Have you seen this on LinkedIn

[00:35:42,842]: Like this is like Yeah I have actually

[00:35:45,962]: Yeah I don’t spend that much time

[00:35:47,602]: I try to spend as Good good on you

[00:35:50,582]: Yes that’s great

[00:35:51,702]: And so if you want to be seen as warm or incompetent one you should angle your body towards the camera you can consider having a head tilt

[00:35:58,202]: Another warmth cue obviously is a genuine smile not a fake smile not a half smile a fake smile is on the bottom half of the face

[00:36:06,462]: And it rubs us really wrong

[00:36:08,322]: So if I were to have a fake smile the bottom half of the face it would make me seem more inauthentic

[00:36:12,562]: A real smile reaches all the way up into our upper cheek muscles

[00:36:15,542]: And that immediately activates a lot of it’s also more contagious

[00:36:19,022]: So if you’re going to smile in your profile picture do it big

[00:36:22,222]: If you’re not going to smile be neutral

[00:36:24,782]: So for example something to think about is men and women have different perceptions of warmth and competence

[00:36:29,982]: Typically women by default are seen as higher in warmth

[00:36:34,842]: Men by default are seen as higher in competence

[00:36:37,762]: This is something important to know

[00:36:39,462]: So for my books I decided to not smile on my book covers my first two book covers because I know that as a woman people are already going to see me as higher in warmth I was trying to dial up competence

[00:36:49,662]: So on my book cover I’m staring right at the camera which is also a high competence cue or a power cue

[00:36:55,062]: In one of them I have a steeple

[00:36:56,602]: So I’m showing my hands but I have that power pose and I’m not smiling

[00:36:59,902]: So you don’t always have to smile

[00:37:01,602]: But if you want to dial up warmth you can

[00:37:05,102]: Competent side so gaze especially prolonged eye contact or highly powerful people also tend to make gaze at the end of their sentence

[00:37:16,502]: I think a bad tip that sometimes people get is like make eye contact all the time

[00:37:21,782]: No that is creepy

[00:37:24,022]: Do not make continuous eye contact

[00:37:25,922]: That is weird

[00:37:26,562]: It’s way too much pressure

[00:37:27,702]: We actually when I asked you earlier what did you have for breakfast two days ago you looked off to the side

[00:37:33,302]: That is because as humans we process away

[00:37:36,942]: We typically will stop making eye contact to process away

[00:37:39,642]: Natural

[00:37:40,622]: What highly competent people do is they’ll often ruminate as they’re thinking they’re looking off in a way and then when they deliver their point they deliver right at the end where they make eye contact to you

[00:37:50,882]: So eye contact at the end of a point or a sentence it’s like very very powerful

[00:37:56,002]: Yeah it’s strange

[00:37:57,402]: Trying to look at somebody for the entirety of the time when you’re speaking is really really hard

[00:38:02,642]: Like you’re it almost feels like you’ve had to strap your eyeballs down and not let them wander around because they want to have a they want to wander

[00:38:11,142]: Yes

[00:38:12,882]: You’re doing the other stuff and blah blah blah

[00:38:16,062]: It’s almost impossible to compute difficult ideas looking at someone

[00:38:20,982]: And that is because our body when I’m making eye contact we’re producing oxytocin

[00:38:25,022]: Our body’s like ah we’re connecting with a human

[00:38:28,342]: We better produce oxytocin which will make us feel trust

[00:38:32,302]: When we’re doing that our brain is like don’t solve math problems

[00:38:35,522]: Don’t try to recall that thing you had for breakfast

[00:38:37,842]: Don’t try to sort the something out

[00:38:39,162]: We’re focusing on oxytocin

[00:38:40,282]: So that’s why in natural conversation people kind of peel away to process something and that feels natural

[00:38:45,922]: There is a myth that liars are shifty eyed

[00:38:49,742]: No no

[00:38:51,122]: Liars make more eye contact and that is because they’ve typically verbally rehearsed

[00:38:55,682]: They don’t have to think and they’re watching you to see do you believe me

[00:39:00,842]: Oh that’s interesting because they also have to use less processing power to think about what they’re doing

[00:39:05,342]: They’re actually recalling as opposed to generating

[00:39:08,262]: Exactly

[00:39:09,142]: They’re literally verbatim memorizing a script which is why it kind of creeps us out when someone doesn’t break eye contact

[00:39:15,682]: We’re like what is going on

[00:39:17,602]: Do they verbally memorize this and also give me a break

[00:39:20,682]: Yeah

[00:39:20,822]: What about the issue of over rehearsing

[00:39:22,962]: Again for smart people who want to try and do it and they’re not trying to be deceitful

[00:39:26,722]: They’re not trying to lie to you but you know the perils of being underprepared versus being overprepared

[00:39:32,342]: Oh okay

[00:39:33,562]: So when we did our TED talk research and we found that hand gesture finding which was just so illumining and now it’s like oh yes smart people use lots of gestures because they understand their content

[00:39:43,602]: The bad TED talk remember everyone if you’re invited to give a TED talk you’re good

[00:39:47,802]: You’re going to be good

[00:39:48,422]: There’s not going to be anyone bad

[00:39:49,542]: They’re rehearsed to some extent

[00:39:51,122]: The bad TED talkers were actually so perfect

[00:39:54,222]: You did not believe them

[00:39:56,289]: They took the stage and they sounded so scripted and so precise that it was literally hard to pay attention or distracting

[00:40:03,569]: The best TED Talks if you go look at the top 10 TED Talks of all time they are super conversational

[00:40:09,649]: They almost take the stage like Brene Brown’s original TED Talk highly recommend to go watch just the style

[00:40:14,649]: She walks on stage as if she’s walking into coffee with you

[00:40:18,469]: She shares her stories as if she’s telling you like an old friend

[00:40:21,959]: Ken Robinson one of the most popular TED Talks of all time he walks on stage and he shares a little anecdote about his son and it feels like we’re just chummy chatting on the side of the road

[00:40:31,149]: He was prepped

[00:40:32,469]: Okay

[00:40:32,769]: All these TED Talkers were very prepared but they were not scripted

[00:40:36,469]: And this is what’s really important

[00:40:38,089]: I actually never ever believe in scripting ever

[00:40:41,169]: I don’t believe in teleprompters

[00:40:42,669]: I don’t like them

[00:40:43,329]: I only use them when I absolutely have to

[00:40:45,429]: I would much rather you bullet

[00:40:47,889]: Stories ideas

[00:40:49,229]: If you’re prepping for an interview or a pitch go off of your slides

[00:40:52,709]: Never over rehearse the exact words you’re going to say

[00:40:55,209]: Try to tap into the original emotion

[00:40:57,089]: Those bullets give you charismatic freedom

[00:41:00,389]: And that conversational tone is so much better than polished perfect formal which smart people love

[00:41:07,549]: Smart people make the mistake they think oh I should be stoic and super formal super polished

[00:41:12,109]: But actually that makes it very hard for someone to relate to you

[00:41:15,769]: That’s interesting

[00:41:16,909]: Yeah it’s certainly trying to be as precise as possible trying to control the outcomes trying to ensure that every word is said with absolute accuracy

[00:41:28,589]: It I don’t know it communicates the ideas correctly but it’s not exactly the vibe that most people are going to feel most warmth toward

[00:41:36,929]: Jamie Siminoff

[00:41:37,609]: Right

[00:41:37,829]: He had the perfect verbal pitch

[00:41:39,309]: It was dialed but they didn’t believe him

[00:41:41,469]: They could not relate to him

[00:41:42,669]: I think that also like look this is a little bit more granola but I perfect is not real

[00:41:49,269]: Perfect doesn’t work

[00:41:50,249]: I think people tend to think that if they have the perfect story or the perfect joke where they look perfect then people will like them and they’ll be impressive

[00:41:57,809]: We don’t like perfect people because we know that it’s not real

[00:42:00,969]: We actually like vulnerability

[00:42:03,309]: We like raw

[00:42:04,349]: And I think we also like people who are not trying to be impressive

[00:42:08,349]: When we try to go in perfect and polished that’s what we’re trying to do

[00:42:10,989]: I would much rather you focus on what’s a way that I can share this with genuine emotion that I actually feel

[00:42:16,769]: And even like a little bit of vulnerability

[00:42:19,029]: For many many years I tried to hide that I’m a recovering awkward person

[00:42:23,049]: I feel very awkward with people

[00:42:24,729]: That’s why I do what I do is it does not come naturally to me

[00:42:28,229]: Pitches and presentations do not come natural

[00:42:30,189]: Conversations do not come natural

[00:42:31,749]: And once I started sharing that people were like oh this is a learned behavior

[00:42:36,929]: If she can learn it maybe I can learn it

[00:42:38,489]: So I think like if there’s something you can share that’s just real that’s way better than perfect

[00:42:43,209]: What should we know about vocal charisma

[00:42:46,189]: Oh vocal charisma

[00:42:47,129]: Okay

[00:42:47,509]: So one thing I didn’t talk about from lie detection research is the importance of our vocal cues

[00:42:52,909]: So a lot of the cues in lie detection are vocal

[00:42:56,409]: And that is because it is very hard to lie with our vocal tone right

[00:43:00,469]: Like it’s hard to manipulate or change your voice

[00:43:04,169]: So the reason why we’re so cued in to listening to how someone is saying something is our brain is trying to figure out are you telling the truth

[00:43:11,829]: Do I believe you

[00:43:13,189]: Do you believe you

[00:43:14,689]: And so there’s a couple of vocal cues that are really important for both truth telling but also just powerful vocal having a powerful vocal charisma

[00:43:21,569]: The very first one is using the lowest end of your natural tone

[00:43:26,629]: All of us have a range both men and women

[00:43:29,009]: So right now I’m working very hard to stay in the lowest end of my natural range

[00:43:32,569]: This is all natural for me but when I’m talking to my husband or my kids you know often say Oh Hey girls how’s it going

[00:43:38,049]: I love you so much

[00:43:39,009]: But if I were to give this entire interview in this tone of voice it would drive you crazy

[00:43:44,229]: You would not like it even though it’s natural to me

[00:43:47,069]: So we like people who are in the lower end

[00:43:49,909]: Why

[00:43:50,629]: When I’m in the lowest end of my register the way that I get my voice down there is one I keep my shoulders as low as possible

[00:43:56,609]: I maximize distance between my ear lobes and my shoulder

[00:43:59,789]: Second I’m taking in a lot of oxygen

[00:44:01,589]: So I’m taking in very deep breaths in this interview to keep my vocal cords nice and relaxed

[00:44:07,269]: I am letting you hear it now so you can hear me take them in but normally I take them a little bit slower

[00:44:12,049]: When we are anxious we hold our breath

[00:44:15,149]: So what happens is we go Hello

[00:44:18,289]: How are you

[00:44:19,509]: Good to see you

[00:44:20,329]: Yes

[00:44:20,909]: Up here we’re holding our voice and everything is tense and we don’t like it

[00:44:24,669]: This should make you feel nervous when I’m talking like this

[00:44:27,529]: So when I speak on the out breath it immediately forces my vocal cords to relax

[00:44:32,269]: The problem is people typically do this on their very first word

[00:44:36,029]: So they answer the phone

[00:44:38,389]: Oh how are you

[00:44:39,249]: Good to hear from you

[00:44:41,829]: Hi my name is Vanessa and I teach people science

[00:44:46,289]: We do that at the very top of our breath because we’re the most nervous

[00:44:49,189]: What I want you to make sure that you do is from the very first line is you are speaking on the out breath

[00:44:53,849]: A little experiment you can do with me if you want to try this is say hello taking a deep breath and say hello at the top of your breath

[00:45:00,129]: So it sounds like this

[00:45:01,409]: Hello

[00:45:04,569]: Are you going to do it

[00:45:05,649]: You can try it

[00:45:06,789]: Hello

[00:45:07,169]: There you go

[00:45:07,969]: That was your highest range

[00:45:09,549]: You should not sound like that

[00:45:10,849]: If that sounded familiar to you and you just did that out loud that means you’re speaking the highest end of your range

[00:45:15,569]: Now the opposite of that is speaking on the out breath

[00:45:18,129]: So I want you to hear the difference for me

[00:45:19,329]: So this is the highest

[00:45:22,029]: This is the lowest

[00:45:23,389]: Hello

[00:45:24,889]: Right

[00:45:25,489]: Like still me but I sound so much better

[00:45:28,169]: So now try to say hello on your out breath

[00:45:31,189]: Hello

[00:45:32,309]: Lower

[00:45:33,049]: Deeper

[00:45:33,609]: That’s the voice you should be using

[00:45:34,929]: When I’m in a pitch or presentation the moment I hear myself go a little higher in my register I take a deep breath and I lower down

[00:45:43,229]: And you might have heard in this interview there has been moments where I’ve gotten a little high and then I correct and breathe out and bring myself down

[00:45:49,149]: This is also where we get vocal fry

[00:45:50,709]: So part one speak in the lower end of your range

[00:45:54,109]: Now please don’t be Elizabeth Holmes

[00:45:57,089]: Don’t go so low that it sounds unnatural to you

[00:45:59,789]: That’s weird

[00:46:01,309]: Lowest end of your natural range

[00:46:02,709]: It should not feel like you’re trying

[00:46:04,729]: Second is vocal fry

[00:46:06,349]: This has to do with breath and volume

[00:46:08,029]: The other thing that can happen when we’re very nervous is we take very shallow breaths and that shallowness makes us breathy

[00:46:16,529]: It also makes us lose volume

[00:46:17,709]: So you’ll notice that people with low volume and low breath they use like vocal fry

[00:46:22,789]: And so they’ll be like Hey everyone like morning it’s like nice to hear from you

[00:46:27,969]: I don’t know

[00:46:30,289]: That grating sounds that vocal fry is like bacon on a frying pan

[00:46:34,389]: We do not like it because we can hear that someone is a little anxious

[00:46:37,529]: We don’t want to catch it

[00:46:38,889]: Whenever I hear someone in vocal fry or if you hear yourself going to vocal fry speak louder

[00:46:44,789]: It’s a trick

[00:46:45,629]: It will get you out of vocal fry immediately

[00:46:48,169]: So if I hear myself hitting that at the end I immediately just speak a little bit louder

[00:46:53,489]: That volume gets rid of it

[00:46:55,169]: It just pushes through

[00:46:55,789]: It pushes your voice through

[00:46:57,229]: Vocal fry is just your vocal cord rubbing together like rattling

[00:46:59,769]: So if you’re adding more volume it just pushes them together so they make a better sound

[00:47:03,529]: So if someone’s using it have them speak up

[00:47:05,449]: How dynamic should people be when it comes to volume

[00:47:07,989]: Quite

[00:47:08,949]: Right

[00:47:09,849]: And they’ve actually researched this

[00:47:11,049]: So dynamic volume is a power vocal cue

[00:47:13,369]: Now look I don’t always teach this one because you got to get it right

[00:47:17,989]: And so if you’re going to use this I really want you to practice it

[00:47:21,289]: We love dynamic volume because it helps us with comprehension

[00:47:25,089]: So for example if I’m really excited about something I’m like you are not going to believe this

[00:47:29,489]: I’m talking at a high volume

[00:47:30,909]: But then when I share something a little bit personal a little bit more private I might go down on my volume

[00:47:36,929]: That immediately cues you in wow we’re coming in closer

[00:47:40,169]: We’re doing something a little bit more intimate

[00:47:41,879]: But then I’m talking about something super exciting

[00:47:44,569]: Like it just cues you into the emotional state

[00:47:46,649]: We like it as a listener

[00:47:47,729]: So I would say if you can use a slightly a touch higher volume when you’re being authoritative so you’re giving a command like a boundary or a deadline when you’re very excited about something we literally tune in more to it

[00:48:01,949]: I think by the way I think there’s like Netflix or YouTube they turn up the volume on ads

[00:48:06,709]: Has anyone else noticed this

[00:48:08,129]: Because like we’re cued to listen to things that are louder

[00:48:10,469]: So if you’re saying something important or you’re excited about up volume up if you’re saying something intimate vulnerable personal kind of secretive or even like surprising lower your volume

[00:48:24,349]: People will either lean in or it also triggers their brain to think oh we’re saying something like a little bit softer

[00:48:31,149]: And that kind of excites us in a different way

[00:48:33,789]: So be careful right

[00:48:35,709]: Like this is a hard thing to master

[00:48:38,289]: I barely do it

[00:48:39,329]: Like in interviews I find it’s I don’t do it purposefully

[00:48:42,309]: If I do it accidentally I’m like yes it’s a lot of cognitive load for me

[00:48:47,809]: Remember I’m an awkward person so I have to think a lot about my communication

[00:48:52,749]: I’m a social overthinker

[00:48:54,109]: So if any of these cues feel like too much cognitive overload do one at a time

[00:48:58,689]: And that is because we can grow social muscles

[00:49:02,049]: So things that used to be hard for me I practiced enough times where now I don’t even think about them

[00:49:06,269]: So it’s okay to also go cue by cue

[00:49:08,409]: There’s 97 of them

[00:49:09,549]: You can go one by one if you want

[00:49:11,329]: Yeah I was going to say what’s your advice for people who are overthinkers when it comes to the way that they communicate to kind of get out of their own head

[00:49:20,809]: Oh yes

[00:49:21,969]: This is I think my mission in life is to help my fellow social overthinkers

[00:49:26,209]: And this is how

[00:49:27,569]: There is no such thing as perfect but there is purposeful

[00:49:31,389]: When you are purposeful with your interactions it takes all the overthinking out of it

[00:49:36,079]: If you know in a conversation you have two goals warmth and competence that directs all that social overthinking that’s like negative not helpful to you into warmth cues competence cues warmth verbal competent nonverbal

[00:49:51,229]: It actually gives your brain something to think about that’s not I’m doing bad

[00:49:55,749]: I sound dumb

[00:49:56,909]: Do they even like me

[00:49:58,409]: Are they mad at me

[00:49:59,789]: So I want to replace all those negative internal limiting beliefs with really positive ones and purposeful ones

[00:50:07,269]: So warmth and competence winning

[00:50:08,929]: I got this

[00:50:09,609]: I’m excited

[00:50:10,449]: Great

[00:50:10,789]: The other thing that you can think about doing is okay what’s my conversational intention here

[00:50:15,829]: I know that when I’m interacting I’m trying to find out as much about the person as possible and I have one singular goal in normal conversation

[00:50:23,389]: How many times can I say me too

[00:50:27,169]: I know that there’s a psychological effect the similarity attraction effect

[00:50:31,849]: It is the most powerful effect in basic interactions which is we like people like us

[00:50:36,869]: We’re of course attracted to sometimes our opposites

[00:50:38,629]: My husband is my opposite and that’s a good thing

[00:50:40,289]: But we like people who have similar values similar interests

[00:50:43,629]: In a conversation if I can feel and get the other person to feel yeah me too I also love that we’re winning

[00:50:51,339]: So I’ve taken away all those negative worries and all I focus on is what questions could I ask to find our similar interests

[00:51:00,489]: What stories could I tell to find our similar core values

[00:51:03,829]: How much more can I say me too

[00:51:06,209]: That has completely game changed the internal focus of my overthinking

[00:51:10,949]: Just trying to resonate with people

[00:51:12,469]: I guess what we don’t want is to feel like we’re the odd one out and some sort of weird thing

[00:51:19,409]: Yeah and resonating

[00:51:20,649]: What about small talk the absolute nightmare encounter that lots of people have

[00:51:25,729]: How can you get better at small talk

[00:51:27,309]: Okay so this is actually what got me started on my career journey 17 years ago aging myself

[00:51:32,889]: So I started in 2007 and my very first YouTube video was about this in November 7 2007 which was how do we elevate small talk to be less boring and more engaging

[00:51:46,709]: I am allergic to small talk

[00:51:48,629]: I hate it

[00:51:49,349]: It turns me off

[00:51:50,369]: It makes me want to leave every conversation

[00:51:52,609]: It wants me to be more introverted

[00:51:54,169]: I’m actually an ambivert in between

[00:51:55,909]: So we did an experiment about a decade ago where we took 500 speed networkers and I assigned them conversation starters that I hypothesized could break small talk scripts

[00:52:07,969]: The problem with small talk is that we’re on autopilot and this is why it goes so badly

[00:52:12,749]: We meet someone and we’re like so what do you do

[00:52:16,549]: Where are you from

[00:52:19,469]: Okay well it was nice meeting you

[00:52:20,669]: We have the same questions and we’ve answered them a million times before so our brain is just dead

[00:52:25,989]: A part of me dies when someone asks what do you do

[00:52:28,829]: That’s just how I feel inside because I’ve answered it so many times

[00:52:32,409]: So I assigned how are you and what do you do

[00:52:35,489]: The two questions we ask and answer the most often

[00:52:37,929]: Then I assigned four questions that I thought would produce better conversation

[00:52:43,389]: We set up cameras in all four corners of the room

[00:52:46,129]: We tested volume body language gestures of excitement

[00:52:49,149]: So more gestures more leaning more nods more smiling and then I asked each person to rate the quality of their conversation on a scale of one to five

[00:52:56,809]: One being that was the most awkward conversation I’ve ever had

[00:53:00,309]: I want to die inside and I could barely fill the time

[00:53:04,369]: Five being that was the best conversation I’ve ever had

[00:53:06,829]: This could be my soulmate right like on a scale of one to five

[00:53:09,769]: How are you and what do you do across the board the lowest ratings yet we ask them all the time

[00:53:14,549]: So my very first tip for small talk do not ask what do you do

[00:53:19,749]: We need to go on a small talk diet

[00:53:21,869]: If you ask boring questions you will get boring answers

[00:53:25,369]: You have to be willing to be conversationally courageous which means breaking the social script

[00:53:30,389]: No more what do you do

[00:53:31,489]: No more how are you

[00:53:32,649]: No more what’s up

[00:53:33,489]: Been busy how’s it going

[00:53:34,629]: No more

[00:53:35,429]: You’re literally chewing them to be boring

[00:53:37,509]: Second the highest rated question was what was the highlight of your day

[00:53:43,409]: Why

[00:53:44,509]: I was trying to think of a replacement for how are you right

[00:53:48,089]: Like it’s hard to like walk into the office and be like what are your greatest dreams in life

[00:53:52,549]: Right

[00:53:52,949]: Like that would be deep but it would people would not like it

[00:53:55,789]: So I’m like what’s a better replacement for how are you

[00:53:58,889]: What’s the highlight of your day or what’s been good

[00:54:02,169]: It completely changes the autopilot one it disengages it but second it makes the other person think oh what has been good good good good good

[00:54:11,169]: And you’re gifting them optimism

[00:54:13,389]: They are literally in their brain thinking what’s been good good good good

[00:54:16,409]: And they’re going through all the good things in their mind which immediately changes them to be more positive gives you a better more engaging answer

[00:54:22,369]: So what was the highlight of your day or what’s good is the question I want you to start with whenever you walk into office hop on a call even an email

[00:54:29,089]: The second two questions were almost tied for second place

[00:54:32,229]: They were working on anything exciting recently

[00:54:35,369]: And this is a replacement for what do you do

[00:54:38,509]: What do you do is also asking someone what are you worth

[00:54:42,949]: And I think that for people who are not defined by what they do or they’re ashamed of what they do it’s actually a hard question for them

[00:54:50,889]: And so if you ask instead working on anything exciting recently you are giving them permission because if they love what they do oh they’ll tell you they will tell you if they don’t love what they do they’ll tell you something else

[00:55:04,009]: That’s great

[00:55:04,789]: A side hustle a personal passion

[00:55:06,909]: If they don’t work they’ll tell you about being a staying at home parent

[00:55:09,589]: It’s a permission question and it immediately lights someone up because they’re like what’s exciting

[00:55:13,389]: What’s exciting

[00:55:14,229]: The third one was what personal passion project are you working on which people love to talk about

[00:55:18,529]: And by the way even if someone doesn’t have a personal passion they can be like you know I have to work on that

[00:55:23,049]: And then you could just share yours right

[00:55:25,089]: Like you can still then share yours and have a little bit excitement

[00:55:28,009]: The fourth question for those of for my math folks who are counting the fourth question almost broke my data in the sense that people either gave this question a five they loved it it was amazing they made best friends or a zero which wasn’t even an option on my scale

[00:55:47,289]: That’s how much they hated it

[00:55:49,169]: Can you guess what it was

[00:55:51,209]: This question is what’s your story

[00:55:55,149]: Now I wondered cause this is kind of a deeper question

[00:55:58,669]: I wonder what this were

[00:56:01,149]: Extroverts love this question

[00:56:03,249]: They’re like what’s my story

[00:56:05,149]: How much time do you have

[00:56:06,249]: Should I start in the childhood years or college

[00:56:08,849]: Like they are thrilled to share their life story with their Uber driver with the person on the side of the street

[00:56:13,629]: Like they love it

[00:56:15,329]: Introverts you ask them this question and they’re like I have to go to the bathroom

[00:56:19,969]: I don’t want to share this with you

[00:56:21,689]: And that is because it’s a little bit personal

[00:56:23,529]: It’s a little bit too deep too quickly

[00:56:25,289]: So I would just share the first three questions

[00:56:27,949]: Great

[00:56:28,329]: Be careful with what’s your story

[00:56:30,149]: Only ask it if it’s an extrovert

[00:56:31,849]: And when in doubt I would avoid asking it until later until you know them better

[00:56:36,649]: Do introverts have more of a problem with being charismatic

[00:56:41,409]: Ah I thought you were going to I thought you were going to ask do introverts have a harder time with small talk

[00:56:46,309]: And the answer is yes because they use less words on an average day and they’re more they’re less comfortable sharing

[00:56:51,829]: Introverts have a very difficult problem because they crave privacy but they also crave connection

[00:56:58,569]: And so they’re like I so want to connect with people in a good way in a deep way but I’m also I value my privacy

[00:57:05,329]: Do they have a hard time being charismatic

[00:57:08,649]: I think they do struggle more than extroverts

[00:57:11,649]: That’s not based on the research but I think that extroverts who are talkers who thrive with people they’re just they they’re at ease in social interactions right

[00:57:22,589]: The difference between an extrovert and introvert is an extrovert gets energy from people

[00:57:26,909]: An introvert gets energy from being alone

[00:57:29,869]: An ambivert can get energy with the right people in the right situations but needs recharge time like needs alone time

[00:57:37,809]: So introverts are often set up to not be as at ease because when they’re with people their their energy battery is used they’re juicing it they’re juicing it

[00:57:47,829]: Now I think that if they know what to say they have exactly what questions to ask

[00:57:51,029]: They know what to do with their hands

[00:57:52,369]: They know what they’re searching for

[00:57:53,729]: It becomes easier

[00:57:55,089]: Their battery is drained less

[00:57:56,629]: So they can be extremely charismatic but it takes more work

[00:58:02,609]: What about um becoming more resilient when we think that people might be socially rejecting us or we kind of get into an awkward conversation or a new one in the group

[00:58:14,269]: We don’t really know how people feel about us and you don’t want to come across as being too brash

[00:58:18,189]: You don’t want to become across come across as being too much of a wallflower um that hyper vigilance

[00:58:23,569]: I imagine that a lot of introverts and people that pay attention maybe smart people have as well where the micro movement of everybody that’s in the room and they’re paying attention to it all

[00:58:31,869]: Uh how can we become sort of more resilient to that fear of social rejection and maybe actual social rejection

[00:58:37,309]: Yes this is I think the mission of my life is helping people feel braver because what’s fascinating is we tend to overrate overestimate our abilities in all areas when it’s not correct

[00:58:48,709]: We tend to think we’re smarter than we are

[00:58:50,669]: We contribute more than we contribute

[00:58:52,189]: The only exception to that is in conversational awkwardness

[00:58:56,169]: We tend to think that we’re bad at conversation which actually when actually we’re better than we think

[00:59:01,069]: So the first thing I would say is you might be harder on yourself than you need to be

[00:59:05,189]: Um and a lot of this can also come from our past bad experiences

[00:59:09,989]: Like if you struggle with social anxiety or if you had a narcissistic parent you often misinterpret neutral facial expressions as negative

[00:59:20,249]: which means that you have been in interactions where you think people are angry at you you think people are disappointed or not happy but actually because of your background you’re misinterpreting neutral as negative

[00:59:31,929]: What are some of the predictive factors for that

[00:59:38,509]: It’s a cycle right

[00:59:40,329]: If we had a narcissistic parent that parent was overly critical of us and often was negative towards us so we take that imprinting we take it to social interactions we see a neutral person who’s like oh that’s interesting you do marketing

[00:59:55,849]: They hate me they think I’m boring

[00:59:58,009]: They hate me I’m going to excuse myself bye

[01:00:01,489]: We don’t ask for their number we don’t think that we’re clicking we think that we’re doing a terrible job we go home early

[01:00:07,409]: I know this so intimately if this is you we are together

[01:00:11,989]: It took me years of coming home from parties and me saying to my husband well she hates me

[01:00:18,149]: My husband would be like what are you talking about

[01:00:20,569]: I’m like yeah she was so mad at me

[01:00:22,689]: He’s like no I don’t think so

[01:00:25,789]: And it took a lot of dissecting this is why I learned microexpressions

[01:00:30,189]: It’s because I was like I have to know what anger looks like so I don’t misinterpret neutral as angry

[01:00:36,149]: I have to know what contempt and disgust I have to know what these look like so I know exactly when I should be seeing negativity when I’m not misinterpreting it

[01:00:43,629]: So one is getting very clear on the cues that are being sent to you

[01:00:46,909]: I think that could be extremely empowering learning what the negative expressions look like so you’re not misinterpreting them

[01:00:53,489]: Second is not everyone is going to like you

[01:00:57,009]: That’s good

[01:00:58,289]: It would be exhausting and overwhelming if everyone liked you and you had to be friends with everyone

[01:01:02,229]: I think the moment we’re okay with some people are not my people

[01:01:06,989]: I actually think we should be more forthright with this

[01:01:09,829]: I believe in creating friendship allergies

[01:01:14,429]: There are certain people who I get along with so well and there are certain people who I’m allergic to

[01:01:21,529]: We just don’t get along that well

[01:01:24,229]: I would rather know that sooner rather than later because I have a social battery that only is half full usually

[01:01:30,429]: So I now create allergies

[01:01:32,849]: I figure this out really quickly

[01:01:34,529]: One of the ones I ask is very early on in a conversation if we’re connecting is I’ll be like so what’s your big goal for 2025

[01:01:42,629]: This is because I am super goal oriented

[01:01:45,529]: I love a goal

[01:01:46,869]: I thrive off of goals

[01:01:48,389]: If you tell me I’m not that into goals or I have all these goals and I just never achieve them we’re probably not going to get along

[01:01:57,749]: I’m with my friends like I will bully you into achieving your goals

[01:02:01,709]: If you have a goal it’s my goal too

[01:02:04,569]: We’re going to be in it together

[01:02:06,569]: So I think thinking about what are the questions you could ask that are going to very quickly help you find your people actually makes you feel more confident because trying to make it work with someone who isn’t your person is exhausting

[01:02:19,529]: It’s like a conversational shit test

[01:02:23,329]: Yes exactly exactly

[01:02:25,449]: We have to think about these

[01:02:26,989]: What are things that you just know are a deal breaker

[01:02:28,969]: I’ll give you one of my husband’s

[01:02:31,109]: He’s going to be so mad at me when I share this but it’s true

[01:02:34,369]: He really does not like horoscopes

[01:02:37,349]: He’s just very much not into horoscopes

[01:02:39,729]: He will ask early on so what’s your sign

[01:02:45,429]: He sees how into it someone is

[01:02:47,929]: If they’re too into it he’s like

[01:02:51,809]: Thank you for sending up a warning flare nice and early

[01:02:55,249]: Yes exactly

[01:02:56,289]: Whenever we’re with a new couple and we’re trying to be friends with this couple and someone starts talking about horoscopes I’m like no it’s done

[01:03:05,869]: We’re not going to be friends

[01:03:07,829]: Oh no

[01:03:09,109]: Okay what about coming across as more attractive when it comes to dating

[01:03:15,329]: Yes so this is kind of a weird one

[01:03:17,449]: I think that we put too much focus on looks for attractiveness

[01:03:21,389]: That sounds weird right

[01:03:22,649]: But actually being attractive is about being physically attractive but it’s actually being physically available

[01:03:28,489]: We are very attracted to people who are not going to reject us

[01:03:32,409]: And so in dating there’s something called signal amplification bias which means that we think that we’re being over the top obvious with our attraction cues and who we’re into but actually we are biased to this

[01:03:46,349]: People miss most of our cues and they tend to think that people are not interested in them

[01:03:50,629]: So you have to over signal availability to others and that makes you immediately more attractive

[01:03:56,409]: I think it was researcher Monica Moore

[01:03:58,889]: She looked at singles in a bar and she found that the most attractive women were often approached the least because they were signaling less availability nonverbal cues

[01:04:09,729]: Women who were signaling the most nonverbal availability cues which I’ll talk about in a second were approached the most and had the most dates and had the most follow ups

[01:04:16,129]: So we’ve learned a couple of these already but we love especially in a courtship setting darting glances

[01:04:24,689]: So I’m going to try and do these with the camera

[01:04:26,489]: Maybe they’ll translate or not

[01:04:28,029]: Monica Moore found this in her research study that the women especially the women it works for men to women too but for women to men especially who do very quick lingering glances

[01:04:36,349]: So it’s like a very quick one two one two like 17 times

[01:04:41,369]: Like that’s how many times it took for a man to approach

[01:04:43,709]: This is in heterosexual dating

[01:04:45,029]: It took 17 times for the guy to get it

[01:04:49,109]: So it takes way more than you think

[01:04:50,849]: So quick darting glances lingering glances

[01:04:53,489]: I also think this was not in the research study but there’s a very low pressure way to be attractive verbally and it’s to be very clear

[01:05:03,269]: If you see someone who’s attractive in the gym or a hallway all you have to do to suss it out if there’s anything happening there is like a hey

[01:05:14,409]: Just that

[01:05:15,489]: Because if they’re married or not interested they’ll be like hey

[01:05:19,189]: You’re like cool

[01:05:20,869]: Like not my person got it

[01:05:22,049]: But if they’re like hey

[01:05:24,309]: You’re in girl

[01:05:25,489]: Like you’re in

[01:05:26,129]: This works for both men or women

[01:05:27,589]: Just try like a little subtle soft hey

[01:05:29,929]: Lowest voice tone little lingering gaze

[01:05:32,589]: It is the fastest way to be like I’m available are you

[01:05:36,469]: And we got to do that more often

[01:05:37,749]: Like life is too short

[01:05:38,809]: I have so many amazing single students who are catches

[01:05:44,869]: They are incredible and they are single and they are lonely

[01:05:47,829]: And I’m like when’s the last time you said hey

[01:05:49,949]: And they’re like what

[01:05:51,889]: I don’t want to be rejected

[01:05:53,749]: And I’m like would you rather be lonely

[01:05:56,529]: Like we got to get some social exposure

[01:05:58,649]: And this is my last tip for dealing with anxiety which also answers your attractiveness question is I would rather you over signal availability which has no repercussions

[01:06:08,089]: If you do darting lingering glances and no one approaches you okay

[01:06:13,569]: Like there’s no downside to that

[01:06:15,229]: If you approach someone or walk by someone in the gym and you’re like hey

[01:06:18,909]: And they ignore you no repercussions

[01:06:22,269]: Like it is totally okay

[01:06:24,369]: I think we have to get out there and expose it

[01:06:26,429]: Because they have found that the more that we can do social exposure to things that make us slightly anxious they stop making us anxious

[01:06:33,729]: So if I’m saying this and this is making me nervous please go do it 10 times

[01:06:40,689]: We got to just rip off that band aid

[01:06:42,729]: I promise you by the 11th time and if it’s not true you can come find me on Instagram and yell at me

[01:06:48,069]: By the 11th time it will feel a little less scary

[01:06:51,029]: By the 12th time you might have a date

[01:06:52,769]: So much of the stuff that you’re talking about sort of aligns with a lot of what CBT teaches

[01:06:56,569]: It’s a combination of exposure therapy CBT reframing

[01:06:59,409]: This isn’t as bad as you think it can be

[01:07:02,649]: It’s not just rooted in nonverbal communication

[01:07:06,849]: I’m going to guess the neuroscience of what’s going on in your brain and how that actually relates to your habits of communication

[01:07:14,109]: And I think yes yes and if you’ve tried CBT or any of these techniques before and they haven’t worked they’re going to work this time and let me tell you why

[01:07:22,649]: Sometimes CBT will give or social exposure therapy will give you an assignment without enough tools

[01:07:27,769]: And if you struggle with social anxiety like I have or if you’re a recovering awkward person like I have you’ll do these over and over again and they still feel bad

[01:07:35,529]: If you have an intention like you know what to do with your hands you know what question you’re going to ask you know exactly how you’re going to say hey you’re going to do flirting darting lingering glances that takes on the anxiety because it gives you something to do with it

[01:07:46,509]: So if it hasn’t worked in the past it will work now because now you’re going to have very specific tools you’re going to use that are going to get you out of that overthinking

[01:07:53,709]: What about online dating profiles cues important attractive cues there

[01:07:59,729]: So again I’m going to say you don’t want to appeal to everyone

[01:08:05,309]: So many of my friends who do online dating by the way I’ve been married for 15 years together with my husband for 18 years so it’s been a minute

[01:08:12,889]: So just caveat all my dating advice with it’s been a minute

[01:08:17,189]: But I do think that I know what a successful relationship looks like and I’m working backwards from that

[01:08:21,589]: Working backwards from that is you don’t want to marry just anyone you want to find your person which means you want to find them quicker

[01:08:29,109]: The fastest way to deplete your social energy on dates is to go on dates with the wrong people

[01:08:34,369]: So I want you to create allergies on your dating profile

[01:08:39,069]: Like I have a friend who loves dogs and she didn’t have any pictures of dogs in her profile

[01:08:45,449]: And I was like no you want to attract a dog guy

[01:08:48,049]: Like you want to attract a guy who loves dogs

[01:08:49,549]: Have a dog in every one of your profile pictures

[01:08:51,849]: Like you need to be featuring your dog because you don’t want to have someone who’s like I’m allergic to dogs

[01:08:55,409]: I don’t really like dogs

[01:08:56,509]: I don’t like when they sleep in our bed

[01:08:57,869]: Like that’s a very specific and small one

[01:09:00,429]: But if you have values you want to state them as clearly as possible up front so you’re getting better dates from the very start

[01:09:06,949]: The second thing is try to ask level two questions on your dates

[01:09:13,729]: The other thing that can happen on these dates is you’re talking but you’re not really connecting

[01:09:18,689]: So you’re on a date and you’re like checking things off

[01:09:21,769]: I know I’ve had a couple amazing experiences where I’ve got to observe some speed dates

[01:09:27,369]: And everyone nowadays has like checklists you know like people have like things in their mind that they want

[01:09:33,329]: And so basically I can hear them doing their checklists in their heads

[01:09:36,989]: They’re like do you travel much

[01:09:38,829]: Oh yeah I love travel

[01:09:40,409]: Check

[01:09:41,229]: So like what do you do for fun on the weekends

[01:09:43,029]: Oh yeah also does yoga also does running also goes to the gym

[01:09:45,709]: Also great check

[01:09:46,709]: So like what shows are you watching these days

[01:09:48,869]: Oh great we have the same humor

[01:09:49,849]: What kind of music do you listen to

[01:09:51,089]: Like I can literally hear them doing those

[01:09:53,289]: And those things are okay but it’s going to limit you in terms of depth

[01:09:58,469]: Those are not very deep questions

[01:10:00,189]: And so then you’ll end up being on seven dates and feel like you don’t really know that person

[01:10:03,429]: I would much rather you go to level two

[01:10:05,649]: So level one when we talk about connection is general traits

[01:10:09,769]: Basic interests job where you’re from like your general facts

[01:10:13,429]: Level two is goals motivations worries fears personality traits

[01:10:19,889]: These are the questions that I want you asking even on date number one

[01:10:23,189]: I want you going there not in the first few minutes

[01:10:25,849]: You’ve got to hit some of those level one questions but like as quickly as possible

[01:10:29,669]: So this is what are you learning right now

[01:10:33,429]: What is your biggest goal right now

[01:10:36,629]: What keeps you up at night

[01:10:38,989]: What excites you

[01:10:40,389]: Where do you see yourself in five years

[01:10:41,829]: Those kinds of questions are getting to values are getting to motivations and that’s where we actually begin to find alignment especially with personality

[01:10:49,689]: Like is this person as extroverted as you

[01:10:52,329]: Like I would literally ask them or have them listen to this podcast and be like where’s your social battery

[01:10:57,149]: Like are you an introvert or extrovert

[01:10:58,629]: Like how much socializing do you like to do in a week

[01:11:01,169]: That is so important for your relationship much more than music tastes

[01:11:07,889]: It’s strange the stuff that we think that we’re going to resonate with other people on compared with what it’s actually going to be

[01:11:15,729]: Are there sex differences between men and women

[01:11:19,969]: The way that we sort of come across in terms of charisma how we get adjudicated how gender neutral are these bits of advice

[01:11:29,669]: Are there certain things that only work for men and women

[01:11:31,689]: There are some

[01:11:32,649]: There are some differences and actually not as many as you would think

[01:11:35,069]: Like even the big five personality traits which is a really robust science has very little gender differences but there are some and they’re typically how we communicate

[01:11:44,589]: So for example women love what are called vocalizations

[01:11:49,649]: On a date a woman thinks that a date is going well and also is more attracted to the person she’s with

[01:11:54,889]: I believe this is both in heterosexual and homosexual relationships

[01:11:58,329]: The more they are saying oh wow oh that’s called a vocalization and they love doing them as well as hearing them

[01:12:10,609]: So men if you would like to be more appealing the more vocalization you can give the woman that you’re with the more she’s going to feel like wow like we’re resonating

[01:12:21,729]: We got this

[01:12:22,709]: We’re a little in the same wavelength

[01:12:24,069]: I’ll even hear like really good relationships like old marriages

[01:12:26,909]: They like mm on the same wavelength

[01:12:30,349]: So like the woman will be like don’t you think mm mm mm

[01:12:35,109]: They’re like literally syncing up their vocalization

[01:12:38,129]: So try to give more vocalizations

[01:12:40,089]: That’s for women

[01:12:41,289]: Men are okay with not having any vocalizations at all

[01:12:44,609]: They don’t need that at all

[01:12:46,589]: That’s like the biggest one

[01:12:48,009]: The other ones have to do with warmth and competence that women tend to come across and feel they should be warmer

[01:12:52,949]: So they tend to laugh more giggle more self touch more right

[01:12:57,609]: Like they’ll self touch their hair their earrings

[01:12:59,809]: They also use different cues to be attractive

[01:13:02,149]: So women to be attractive will touch their lips

[01:13:04,889]: They’ll touch their suprasternal notch like the notch in between their two collarbones

[01:13:08,929]: They will stroke their hair to show the health of their hair which shows that they can bear children

[01:13:13,549]: Men will typically try to showcase the squareness of their jaw

[01:13:18,909]: So like they might do one of these things or like they’ll rub their face to like shit at

[01:13:25,069]: They also want their pheromones out there

[01:13:27,589]: So they might like even like rub this or try to get like their armpit pheromones out because they know that signaling high testosterone that’s a little bit different between homosexual and heterosexual

[01:13:39,669]: But the way that we are attractive is a little bit different

[01:13:44,049]: Availability is good for everyone but some of those smaller cues are a little bit different

[01:13:47,269]: Yeah I think especially in this new world of guys being very concerned about not wanting to make women feel uncomfortable or be part of some awful news headline or a TikTok or in the background of a gym

[01:14:00,209]: But a lot of women still getting sort of living in this blast radius of why men love bitches treat him like you treat him mean keep him keen

[01:14:10,349]: I think we need an iOS update for what it is that women understand about sort of how men are interpreting

[01:14:19,749]: If it’s anything other than an absolute hell yeah with a big sign above your head it’s a oh my God I don’t want to get in trouble

[01:14:25,869]: Right right

[01:14:26,669]: And I think like asking like all the kinds of nonverbal permission are also great as well

[01:14:33,749]: Like for example in this culture that we’re in right now it’s like a very odd place to be

[01:14:38,929]: Touching used to be a thing that people did when they were flirting

[01:14:42,069]: This used to be a thing that we did where like a man and woman was attracted

[01:14:45,749]: And so you would sort of lean out and touch their arm

[01:14:48,329]: You touch their lower back

[01:14:49,449]: Well now it’s like you know I don’t want to touch too quickly

[01:14:52,469]: So what you can do instead is you can reach out as if you’re about to touch and then let the woman go the other way

[01:14:59,449]: So like you can like I call it a hover touch

[01:15:01,929]: Like right

[01:15:02,189]: So you can like it’s hard to do it on myself

[01:15:03,789]: But like if you would normally to flirt with a woman like reach out and touch her hand or touch her back you could reach out and not actually touch her and see if she leans into the touch or is receptive to the touch

[01:15:15,809]: So there’s also things that we can do to have like that slow impact

[01:15:19,029]: Halfway house

[01:15:20,229]: What about have you looked at paying and receiving compliments how to get better at doing that

[01:15:25,949]: Well I’m probably not the person to ask on compliment economics because while I know I shouldn’t need compliments compliments make me feel good and therefore I really want compliments

[01:15:36,569]: So I think that we should actually compliment like a skill and take a compliment like a skill

[01:15:41,969]: What I mean by this is don’t compliment the tall guy on being tall right

[01:15:47,789]: Like do not compliment someone on something that they already know is a thing for them

[01:15:52,309]: Like I often hear like I’m with VIPs right and someone will compliment the VIP on the thing that they work really hard on

[01:16:01,289]: They’re like yeah yeah I know

[01:16:02,509]: You’re better off complimenting someone on something that they’re working really hard at but they haven’t quite perfected right

[01:16:08,489]: So if there’s something that they’re working on they haven’t quite perfected and you’re like seeing the progress complimenting on progress is one of the best things you can do

[01:16:15,809]: We love progress as human beings

[01:16:17,989]: So complimenting more specific things that they’re working on

[01:16:21,089]: And the second thing is we should be good at receiving compliments and I’ve had to work on this where like if someone compliments you like oh my gosh that is so kind and then don’t say it back

[01:16:30,369]: This is like the worst when someone’s like oh my gosh you look so pretty and then someone’s like oh you look pretty too

[01:16:37,549]: That’s the best that you could come up with

[01:16:39,389]: Yeah no one believes that

[01:16:40,109]: So if you get a compliment just say thank you so much that’s so kind

[01:16:43,909]: Just that

[01:16:45,769]: Don’t apologize for it

[01:16:47,209]: Don’t say that they’re wrong

[01:16:48,549]: And for heaven’s sakes don’t fake compliment them back

[01:16:50,809]: Just take it

[01:16:53,309]: Yeah it’s being able to take compliments well

[01:16:58,429]: I remember I don’t know whether it’s the Brit in me although I do think that a lot of Brits do this this sort of disparaging oh God you know I mean like someone would say I really love how much attention you pay to dude

[01:17:11,769]: Well you know I’ve got nothing else going on in my life

[01:17:13,689]: So it’s like this person said something really nice to you

[01:17:18,009]: You’ve managed to make it even more about you somehow but in the saddest way possible

[01:17:23,869]: And also like we hate feeling wrong

[01:17:26,149]: So if someone compliments you and you’d argue with them you’re giving them away

[01:17:30,369]: No I’m not

[01:17:30,589]: No don’t be silly

[01:17:31,569]: It’s like hey this person just said something nice to you and you’ve denied their accuracy of the world

[01:17:37,549]: Yes and here’s how I want you to think about it

[01:17:39,889]: We love a lot of things as humans but two things we really love

[01:17:43,249]: One feeling really smart

[01:17:46,769]: Second giving advice

[01:17:48,649]: So if you say to someone my gosh I have been loving how much you’re doing on YouTube

[01:17:54,509]: It’s incredible your videos

[01:17:56,729]: And I say oh no no I didn’t do any of it

[01:17:59,149]: My team did all of it

[01:17:59,829]: They’re like oh I feel stupid

[01:18:01,829]: That is the worst thing for someone to feel

[01:18:04,409]: The second thing is can you double down and be like oh my gosh what did you like about it

[01:18:08,329]: Tell me everything

[01:18:10,049]: You’ve just doubled up on the compliment

[01:18:12,129]: Not only have you accepted what they’ve given and made them feel smart now you’re actually going to ask them for advice which really puts them in the position of expert

[01:18:19,549]: So when someone compliments me on something like that especially like if someone compliments me on my book I’ll be like oh my gosh what was like the biggest takeaway

[01:18:26,089]: Like what did you love the most

[01:18:27,189]: I’m writing my next book

[01:18:29,149]: I’m trying to figure out the nuggets that stuck with people

[01:18:31,969]: And they’re like well let me tell you

[01:18:33,909]: It’s also a little bit of a shit test to make sure that they’re actually – it’s like um the thing about the lying

[01:18:40,909]: I really like the thing about the lying

[01:18:43,249]: I mean like I’d rather know

[01:18:44,629]: Like are you going to fake compliment me or real compliment me

[01:18:46,709]: So yes the other hidden objective of that is also is this real

[01:18:51,369]: How am I going to sniff test this

[01:18:52,749]: Are you bullshitting me

[01:18:54,029]: Vanessa you’re awesome

[01:18:55,349]: Chase mutual friend of ours has been harping on about you for forever

[01:19:00,209]: And it’s awesome

[01:19:02,149]: As a recovering socially awkward only child person who’s also British as well you’re doing the God’s work

[01:19:08,809]: Where should people go

[01:19:09,469]: They want to keep up to date with all the stuff that you’ve got going on

[01:19:11,409]: Oh my goodness

[01:19:12,069]: Well I read my audiobooks

[01:19:13,529]: So if you like audio I do Cues and Captivate

[01:19:16,649]: They’re both on Audible

[01:19:17,649]: And then I’m at scienceofpeople com if you want tips every Monday

[01:19:21,909]: Heck yeah

[01:19:22,389]: Vanessa until next time

[01:19:23,529]: I appreciate you

[01:19:24,149]: Thank you

[01:19:25,329]: Bye

[01:19:26,209]: Do you think that your algorithm on YouTube is a bit of a God

[01:19:28,909]: Is it able to know things about you that you don’t know about yourself

[01:19:31,749]: Well the YouTube Gods have selected this episode specifically for you

[01:19:36,569]: Bespoke

[01:19:38,229]: So go and check it out

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