In the landscape of contemporary media, narratives surrounding religious freedom and the challenges faced by Christians in various states often spark intense debate. One such narrative surfaced in a recent discussion featuring Andrew Isker on Tucker Carlson’s YouTube channel. Isker, a long-time resident of Minnesota, shares his experience regarding what he describes as a ‘declaration of war’ against Christians by the state, culminating in his decision to relocate to Tennessee.
However, claims regarding the treatment of Christians in different regions merit careful scrutiny. In this blog post, we will delve into the assertions made during the discussion, assessing the accuracy of Isker’s experiences and the broader implications of such claims. By fact-checking these statements, we aim to provide a clearer understanding of the reality faced by faith communities in the U.S., free from sensationalism and misinformation. Join us as we unpack the truths and misconceptions surrounding this pressing topic.
Find a fact check of this transcript on CheckForFacts
Transcript:
[00:00:00,000]: So Andrew thank you for doing this [00:00:02,240]: So you’re so controversial [00:00:05,460]: I love that [00:00:07,860]: Yeah married man with six kids who pays his taxes you’re so controversial [00:00:11,399]: Very [00:00:12,079]: Controversial would be not paying your credit card bill and you know putting the banks out of business convincing other people to do the same not paying your federal taxes forcing the U S government to pay attention to its own citizens [00:00:21,219]: You’re doing none of that so as far as I’m concerned you’re a non controversial law abiding man [00:00:25,600]: But you are doing one thing that’s pretty wild which is participating in the building of a new town [00:00:32,080]: It sounds almost like a Christian utopian experiment in Tennessee but I don’t really know [00:00:38,299]: Can you tell me what it is and why you’re doing it [00:00:39,860]: Yeah so it’s not quite that [00:00:44,099]: It’s not the Oneida community [00:00:45,860]: Yeah we’re not building some kind of Anabaptist community [00:00:49,599]: Okay you’re not the Shakers [00:00:50,740]: No [00:01:11,040]: No really it’s a company [00:01:15,699]: Ridge Runner is purchasing land and sort of facilitating a lot of things [00:01:21,819]: Like you’re familiar with the Big Sort where people are leaving you know blue states to go to red states and things like that [00:01:29,839]: It’s along those lines where people are leaving [00:01:32,459]: Like I left Minnesota a very blue state [00:01:35,000]: Everyone’s now familiar with our governor in that state Tim Walz [00:01:41,379]: Don’t hire him to babysit [00:01:42,580]: No I would not [00:01:44,339]: He would be the last person [00:01:45,500]: Yes I think so [00:01:47,680]: And you know so we wanted to leave there [00:01:51,120]: Many people want to leave places like that [00:01:53,019]: My friend CJ left California Gavin Newsom’s state to come to Tennessee [00:01:58,660]: And so it’s a platform to be able to you know draw all of your friends together [00:02:05,019]: It’s like well we can kind of live anywhere [00:02:07,900]: Why don’t we all live in the same kind of place and bring our families bring our businesses and build things together [00:02:15,899]: So it’s sort of a platform for drawing people that are you know spread out all throughout the country and can leave these places that are not great [00:02:27,380]: You know living in large cities or suburbs where you’re just totally disconnected and you know really isolated alienated from normal life [00:02:37,259]: And you can have the American small town experience once again [00:02:43,820]: It’s so sad to hear you say that about Minnesota [00:02:46,860]: As a Scandinavian I always thought of it was told you know it’s like where all the Swedes are [00:02:50,600]: And it’s kind of you know lots of saunas and you know red cheeked children and it’s clean and reasonable [00:02:58,619]: Yeah yeah yeah [00:02:59,419]: Not the case anymore [00:03:01,020]: Why did you leave there [00:03:03,179]: You know for us it was [00:03:05,720]: Are you from there [00:03:06,619]: I’m from there yeah [00:03:07,679]: Born and raised in Waseca Minnesota [00:03:10,119]: My children were the sixth generation of our family that lived in that town [00:03:17,479]: And [00:03:18,039]: In the town [00:03:18,619]: In that town yeah [00:03:19,899]: In the town of Waseca [00:03:21,860]: Are your ancestors buried there [00:03:23,679]: Yes [00:03:24,380]: There’s six generations that are buried there [00:03:26,520]: Even one of my own children that passed that you know all they’re like [00:03:31,940]: We lived you know a couple blocks away from the cemetery where all of my ancestors were buried [00:03:37,979]: Oh gosh [00:03:38,160]: Yeah [00:03:38,500]: Oh that’s very heavy to leave a place like that [00:03:42,979]: And it was you know after the 2022 election where the Democrats took control of the State Senate finally and Tim Walz could do whatever he wanted to do he [00:03:58,679]: The first thing he passed was in the wake of the Dobbs decision full abortion allowance even up to birth [00:04:07,699]: Like you know there were the stories during the election about you know even like post birth abortions that took place in Minnesota [00:04:13,940]: I went to the state capitol and spoke to the first committee when that bill was being heard [00:04:20,859]: And I mean maybe you know later your guys can pull up that video [00:04:25,820]: But I just went there and said like hey you think you won an election you think you can do this and just murder children [00:04:33,220]: But God is not mocked [00:04:34,779]: Like he’s going to come with vengeance about what you’re doing [00:04:39,260]: There are consequences [00:04:41,000]: They’re like all these you know 60 year old liberal ladies senators you know are looking at me scoffing at me and just staring daggers at me and hating what I’m saying [00:04:49,380]: How dare he come this Christian nationalist [00:04:52,739]: Lots of luck to them [00:04:54,760]: Yeah [00:04:54,799]: And so that’s the first bill that they passed [00:04:56,399]: The second bill that they passed and these are the first two legislative priorities that they had [00:05:01,000]: The second one was a trans rights bill which allowed the state to take your child out of their custody or your parents custody if you opposed a transition [00:05:17,559]: And my oldest child is 12 [00:05:20,200]: A minor child [00:05:20,959]: Minor child yeah [00:05:21,640]: My oldest son he’s 12 years old [00:05:24,399]: He has autism [00:05:25,260]: We homeschool all the rest of our children but we don’t have the resources to be able to educate him with his autism [00:05:33,320]: And so he goes to special ed [00:05:35,059]: And I’m well aware especially you see the things that happened in 2020 2021 all of the activism trans stuff in the schools right [00:05:44,739]: All the libs of TikTok kind of stuff [00:05:46,980]: Yes [00:05:47,940]: That the majority of like trans children are on the autism spectrum right [00:05:53,600]: These children are targeted right [00:05:55,440]: And I’m thinking okay he doesn’t talk about school [00:06:01,480]: He doesn’t talk about home at school [00:06:02,720]: He categorizes all of his life [00:06:04,480]: He just won’t do it [00:06:06,279]: So I would have no way of knowing like what is going on there [00:06:09,600]: They could be putting him in a dress and calling him a girl name [00:06:13,980]: And I would have no idea [00:06:15,760]: And then when I find out and I oppose it right boom CPS comes takes him out of our custody [00:06:20,859]: He’s gone forever [00:06:22,040]: And they can [00:06:22,540]: So that’s when you go Randy Weaver at that point [00:06:25,359]: Oh yeah [00:06:25,779]: For sure [00:06:26,420]: And you don’t want to go Randy Weaver [00:06:28,040]: No Like it didn’t end well for Randy Weaver [00:06:29,980]: No [00:06:30,420]: Doesn’t end well for anybody [00:06:31,440]: No I don’t [00:06:32,100]: I don’t [00:06:32,600]: Yeah [00:06:32,739]: I don’t want to go down that road [00:06:34,760]: No no nobody does [00:06:36,160]: Nobody does [00:06:36,820]: And so it’s like we need to we need to get out of here right [00:06:39,359]: We cannot trust the you know the whole system with our child [00:06:44,359]: They could they could steal him from us right [00:06:46,440]: This could happen [00:06:47,040]: I don’t want to be the the test case for that [00:06:49,940]: I don’t want to go through the legal battles and do all those fights [00:06:52,920]: I want my son [00:06:54,200]: I don’t I don’t want to live in a place where that’s even conceivable that that could happen to you [00:06:59,380]: It’s insane [00:07:00,079]: And so it was at that moment I’m like we need to we need to get out of this state [00:07:04,339]: This is it’s not a place where I can raise my children [00:07:08,820]: And I’m thinking like long term right [00:07:11,660]: We yeah we’ve been in this place for six generations but and it’s it’s a wonderful town you know amazing place [00:07:19,079]: I mean it’s home [00:07:19,859]: I love the people there [00:07:21,619]: And you know many of them are going to be watching this [00:07:24,760]: Well you must know all of them [00:07:27,079]: From from my youth [00:07:28,420]: You know you you go to the store and you see you know my my wife and children hated when I would go to the store because it would take you know an hour to get a thing of milk because I’d just stop and talk to people I’ve known my whole life [00:07:40,799]: Oh I love that [00:07:41,700]: And it’s a wonderful place [00:07:43,000]: Like it’s hard to leave that right [00:07:45,100]: Because it’s you know it you’re familiar with everything and all of the people and just the the way of life [00:07:52,820]: Gosh that’s where your family’s buried [00:07:54,260]: Six generations [00:07:55,040]: That’s just I I had no idea [00:07:56,579]: That’s so much to give up [00:07:58,260]: It must have been [00:07:59,820]: I can’t [00:08:00,579]: Like it would I can’t stay in a place like that [00:08:04,160]: It’s there’s no future for for my children for my family in a place that’s that far gone right [00:08:11,160]: That that has been destroyed [00:08:12,540]: And and you see so many of these other states you know California Washington adopted all the same things that that Walz’s Minnesota did [00:08:21,500]: I want to get back to the Ridge Runner and the town that’s being built which I assume is a fascist Christian theocracy [00:08:30,600]: That’s what the TV news in Nashville has said [00:08:32,780]: Sorry I’ll get to that point [00:08:34,919]: Yes [00:08:35,520]: Mr Phil Williams the journalist [00:08:37,119]: Little Iran except Christian [00:08:39,080]: Right [00:08:41,140]: But why do you think so that the three I mean I have my own theories but you’ve lived it much more personally than I have [00:08:47,700]: So you tell me why do you think states like Minnesota Oregon Washington California have gone to a place that I think by any objective global standard there’s no country in the world that would nod and say that’s okay [00:09:03,059]: Except maybe the UK [00:09:04,280]: Yeah [00:09:05,119]: How did they get there [00:09:07,320]: I think I mean for all of them the political power was captured by by the left political and cultural power [00:09:16,280]: I mean I went to to college in Minnesota in the in the early 2000s and you can see the seeds of all of these things right [00:09:24,239]: Beginning to form [00:09:26,039]: And and so all all of the institutions were captured and and especially culturally in Minnesota [00:09:32,419]: People people are very nice right [00:09:34,859]: It’s not a it’s not a myth [00:09:36,640]: Minnesota nice is very real [00:09:38,039]: And right [00:09:38,880]: The the ethos is if you don’t have anything nice to say right [00:09:42,099]: Don’t say anything at all which I just swim completely against that tide [00:09:45,739]: It’s true [00:09:47,020]: I mean not to point to genetics but it’s real [00:09:49,260]: It’s Germans Scandinavians Norwegians Swedes some Finns [00:09:53,859]: It’s like these are these are gentle non confrontational people for the most part [00:09:57,960]: Yeah [00:09:58,479]: They’re they’re very they’re very kind [00:10:01,219]: People that that are to a fault unwilling to give offense [00:10:06,580]: Yes [00:10:06,960]: And very very tolerant of of other people [00:10:09,820]: Yes they are [00:10:10,580]: And that gets taken advantage of [00:10:12,179]: Right [00:10:12,599]: So you can have [00:10:13,219]: So they take our best qualities and subvert them against us [00:10:16,200]: Yes [00:10:16,719]: And and you can see that in in in other places too like on on the West Coast as well [00:10:21,820]: Right [00:10:24,039]: That that and especially with like Christians this is this is done all of all of the time [00:10:31,840]: I know [00:10:32,580]: Where where you’re told well we need to love other people and be kind and be Christlike [00:10:38,200]: And and that ethos gets subverted and used to these ends [00:10:41,739]: Right [00:10:42,260]: Where well how how dare you you know talk about these things [00:10:45,859]: Like how how dare you talk about these things from the pulpit that these things going on [00:10:50,140]: Like it it offends a lot of people [00:10:52,200]: No it does [00:10:52,619]: I mean I come from a family like that with some of them have strong views but they would never impose their views on you under any circumstances [00:10:59,739]: They’re just it’s not in them [00:11:01,239]: It’s a very specific Northern European culture where they just don’t want to don’t want to get in your face [00:11:07,679]: Never [00:11:08,260]: But it leaves them defenseless a little bit I think [00:11:10,700]: Yeah [00:11:11,500]: Yeah [00:11:12,460]: And you know I mean maybe I’m maybe I’m unique you know maybe my personality type is is such that I just I can’t do that [00:11:22,520]: I can’t see like evil stuff happening taking place and not say something about it [00:11:28,039]: Not say this is this is insane [00:11:29,700]: Like how how how could we I mean just think a hundred years ago [00:11:34,340]: And that’s that’s sort of you know my book is right [00:11:38,559]: If you go back a hundred years and you think about your your great great grandfather and you told him hey they’re they’re going to take little kids and little boys and remove their genitals and turn them into two girls [00:11:49,820]: Right [00:11:50,239]: Are you okay with that [00:11:51,260]: Do you think that’s that’s all right [00:11:52,320]: Like what would they do if that was even proposed [00:11:54,960]: Like they would [00:11:55,400]: I thought Unix went out with the Ming Dynasty [00:11:57,260]: Yeah that’s right [00:11:57,580]: Maybe we have that [00:11:59,340]: Yeah [00:11:59,380]: Yeah [00:11:59,520]: We’re bringing that back [00:12:00,340]: They would go insane [00:12:01,479]: They would they would they would fight [00:12:02,820]: They become violent if if that were happening [00:12:05,140]: And and we’re like well you know I I really want to keep my job [00:12:10,099]: So I’ll I’ll put the I’ll I’ll put the pronouns in my email signature and on my LinkedIn [00:12:16,280]: You know I’ll I’ll just you just go along to get along [00:12:18,700]: I have contempt for them [00:12:19,940]: Yeah [00:12:21,340]: So my theory is that those are the most secular states [00:12:24,859]: Yeah [00:12:25,760]: And Maine is another one of the most secular states unfortunately [00:12:28,919]: And those trends are rising there as well [00:12:31,640]: Yeah [00:12:32,020]: Famously [00:12:33,239]: And there’s something about the you know there are lots of left wing ideas that are liberal ideas or socialist ideas that like well I don’t disagree with all of them honestly but some of them a lot of them I really disagree with [00:12:44,080]: Yeah [00:12:44,580]: But the transgender thing the abortion thing human sacrifice and turning your children to eunuchs those are so clearly expressions of cultish religion [00:12:57,099]: Of pagan religion [00:12:58,039]: Yeah [00:12:58,780]: That like I can’t turn away [00:13:00,539]: I’m like the Canaanites did this [00:13:02,179]: Yeah [00:13:02,359]: Like I know what’s going on here [00:13:03,820]: This is not you claim you’re secular [00:13:06,140]: You’re not secular at all [00:13:07,119]: These are religious rituals [00:13:08,380]: Yes they are [00:13:08,799]: That’s the way it feels to me [00:13:09,559]: Yes [00:13:10,539]: Absolutely [00:13:11,219]: It is [00:13:13,020]: And and and that’s part of it too [00:13:14,880]: I think the things that happened like when I was in college in the early 2000s you know I had the new atheism and and everyone was like it was just cool to to be an atheist [00:13:24,880]: Like oh I’m agnostic [00:13:25,960]: I don’t I don’t really believe in [00:13:27,719]: Who was that [00:13:27,880]: There was like a really absurd person posing as like a genius who was one of the leader [00:13:34,179]: There were probably a bunch of them but who was the most famous one [00:13:36,700]: Oh like Richard Dawkins or Daniel Dennett or Christopher Hitchens [00:13:41,380]: I knew Hitchens well [00:13:42,640]: He was a marvelous guy but totally wrong on that [00:13:45,559]: He was legit smart [00:13:46,859]: Yeah [00:13:47,140]: No there’s another one whatever who’s always running around [00:13:50,140]: Like today like James Lindsay is is one of those types [00:13:53,239]: Who’s James Lindsay [00:13:55,440]: He’s he is a this this atheist atheist guy that opposed wokeness and things like that but wants wants just a free liberal society [00:14:06,500]: Like it’s 1995 [00:14:07,979]: Yeah [00:14:08,580]: Yeah [00:14:09,159]: I’m all for a free liberal society [00:14:10,780]: It’s just that there there isn’t one [00:14:13,840]: Either you’re moving quickly toward I mean I will never give up my views of I will never stop being liberal on the most basic level which is I actually don’t want to control you or your beliefs because I don’t think you’re a slave [00:14:26,520]: I think you’re a human being because God made you [00:14:29,099]: That’s my view [00:14:29,979]: Yeah [00:14:30,419]: And so I don’t want to break down people’s doors to make sure they’re adhering to what I believe at all [00:14:35,820]: I hate that [00:14:37,780]: However it you’re either moving toward order or you’re moving toward chaos [00:14:41,739]: You’re moving toward you know a society rooted in some sort of transcendent belief or you’re moving toward trannyism which is another like transcendent belief [00:14:51,020]: It’s like you pick a religion [00:14:52,739]: Yeah [00:14:53,219]: It’s not whether but which there there will be one [00:14:55,799]: And that’s that’s part of it is like the the new like the new atheism all of those things that broke down you know Christian mores and and and and Christian you know imbued all all throughout the American public life takes all of that down [00:15:13,460]: But then there’s a vacuum and that vacuum gets filled up [00:15:16,619]: And what’s it been filled up with insane stuff like this child sacrifice you know all of it [00:15:21,940]: Like it is it is a new religion [00:15:23,619]: It isn’t it isn’t a question of like well we’re just going to have pluralism [00:15:27,119]: We’re not going to have any dominant religion [00:15:29,539]: It’s no there will be one there will be a God that you serve [00:15:33,239]: And and the one that we are serving now is some kind of demon [00:15:36,700]: Well I think that so much better put than I could have than I could have formulated that but yes exactly [00:15:43,460]: Perfectly put [00:15:44,119]: Exactly [00:15:44,700]: You’re going to worship something [00:15:45,919]: Yeah [00:15:46,200]: And now we’re worshiping something really really dark as a society but it’s it’s particularly pronounced in the States that have abandoned Christianity the most aggressively and just come up with this new pagan religion [00:15:57,559]: So okay [00:15:58,380]: So this is going on in your state [00:16:00,239]: You’re the six generations in one town [00:16:02,780]: Boy that’s gotta be pretty rare right now [00:16:04,640]: Yeah [00:16:05,059]: You’ve got six children [00:16:06,679]: You have a child buried in the cemetery along with all your ancestors and you leave all of that [00:16:12,200]: What what’s going on in your church [00:16:14,059]: Were you a church goer at the time [00:16:15,559]: Yeah I was I was pastoring a church [00:16:17,640]: Yeah [00:16:18,239]: Yes [00:16:19,179]: Literally [00:16:20,080]: Okay [00:16:20,760]: Yes [00:16:21,200]: So you’re involved in church [00:16:22,520]: Yes I am [00:16:23,140]: Yeah [00:16:23,820]: And it’s a church with wonderful people [00:16:26,919]: And and you know they’re they’re there because they you know more or less think like I do [00:16:31,900]: They like like hearing what I preach [00:16:33,400]: You know they like they like all of these things [00:16:37,760]: And and so it’s extremely difficult to leave them as well [00:16:43,320]: But it was it was difficult because it was very small church and and the things that I’m I’m preaching [00:16:49,000]: Right [00:16:49,280]: So I I take the pastor there in 2021 [00:16:53,140]: So after the lockdowns after all of these things and there’s there’s an incredible amount of of of discontent among Christians because their church has been shut down [00:17:01,280]: Their leaders have failed them [00:17:03,520]: And so we had we had many families join us you know after that [00:17:08,780]: But you know overall right [00:17:10,599]: The people you know in in Minnesota right [00:17:13,800]: They don’t they’re not used to the kind of preaching that that I do the kind of Christianity that I have where it’s like I know I believe the Bible like like God is real [00:17:27,459]: And he has spoken he’s revealed himself to us in the Bible [00:17:32,540]: And therefore I believe all of it [00:17:34,739]: And I’m not embarrassed by any of it [00:17:36,599]: I’m not going to like tiptoe around the things that might be controversial [00:17:40,380]: If anything I’m going to lean into those things and and I’m going to preach all of it [00:17:45,439]: And that’s that runs totally against the evangelical Christian ethos in America today [00:17:52,300]: It’s it’s it’s all about you need to be nice [00:17:57,000]: You need to you know make make Jesus very inoffensive to people [00:18:00,739]: And that’s how you bring people into your church [00:18:02,739]: So I’ll say I’m not an evangelical [00:18:05,119]: I’ve always liked the evangelicals [00:18:06,900]: I’ve always defended them [00:18:07,900]: I’m very sympathetic as a non evangelical [00:18:10,140]: I’m not even exactly sure what an evangelical is [00:18:12,260]: It seems more like a cultural descriptor but I’m completely opposed to abortion [00:18:17,579]: So that has been for me the reason that I’ve always defended them [00:18:21,380]: But I always thought that the evangelicals were really forthright about their faith [00:18:26,640]: Another thing that I liked [00:18:29,219]: And we’re way more on the kind of fire and brimstone side which I’m for by the way [00:18:35,099]: But you’re saying that they’re not [00:18:37,880]: That that was certainly you look at like you know the 80s and even in the early 90s like you have the moral majority where they very much were that kind of fire and brimstone [00:18:47,140]: And they’ve they’ve been vindicated by everything that has happened [00:18:49,800]: Oh I’d say [00:18:51,660]: I’d say [00:18:53,219]: It’s hilarious [00:18:54,199]: Lent is here the period before Easter the 40 days [00:18:57,380]: And it’s a unique chance to get closer to God [00:18:59,839]: That’s the point of it [00:19:01,400]: Hallow the world’s number one prayer app can help you do that [00:19:04,579]: Joining their prayer 40 challenge [00:19:06,839]: It’s a great way to connect with Christians all over the world and unite in preparation for Easter which is the payoff of this season [00:19:12,640]: It’s called The Way [00:19:13,739]: It helps participants focus on how Jesus is the way to heaven [00:19:17,160]: If you join the challenge you’ll embark on a spiritual journey with some of America’s most convicted Jesus followers [00:19:24,640]: Powerful stories prayer you grow in your ability to sacrifice [00:19:27,459]: That’s what Lent is [00:19:28,020]: It’s a sacrifice [00:19:28,979]: And taking thought provoking sermons and true stories of faith in action which are amazing [00:19:34,479]: This year is going to be the best Lent ever [00:19:37,599]: Thousands of people praying together all over the world [00:19:39,280]: And you can be part of it through Hallow which by the way is in use in my house [00:19:43,579]: And a nightly topic of conversation [00:19:45,300]: So you can sign up at Hallow com slash Tucker when you join [00:19:48,719]: Check out thousands of guided prayers meditations music and everything [00:19:53,319]: There is a ton on Hallow all designed to help you find peace and closeness to God [00:19:59,020]: Download the Hallow app and jump onto the Lent Pray 40 Challenge right now [00:20:03,699]: But throughout the 90s and early 2000s they really changed course [00:20:08,819]: As the cultural trajectory is changing they adopted you know very secret sensitive movement where it’s like well people [00:20:19,400]: I’m sorry what did you call it [00:20:20,160]: Secret sensitive movement [00:20:21,260]: What does that mean [00:20:22,260]: It was the big movement in evangelicalism in the 90s and early 2000s where we’re going to make it as easy as possible for people to come into the church and believe in Jesus [00:20:36,540]: And so we’re not going to focus on things that might offend them [00:20:41,540]: We’re not going to focus on sin and repentance and things like that [00:20:44,939]: We’re just just come on in and have a good time and know that you’re welcome here [00:20:50,640]: Come as you are [00:20:51,839]: We’ll meet you halfway like that [00:20:53,359]: That was more or less the [00:20:55,199]: Why do you think they did that [00:20:57,380]: I think you know a friend of mine [00:21:00,760]: I think I could call him a friend [00:21:02,920]: He’s written about this like neutral world or negative world neutral world positive world where you know in the 70s and 80s Christianity is generally understood culturally as as a positive thing [00:21:15,900]: Like if you said oh I go to church I’m a Christian [00:21:17,719]: I go to that church [00:21:18,500]: People think oh that’s a good guy [00:21:19,900]: He’s he’s an upstanding decent person [00:21:22,819]: But by the by the mid 90s it was it was sort of neutral [00:21:26,819]: Right [00:21:27,180]: It was sort of oh well that’s just a cool thing that you do [00:21:30,939]: Right [00:21:31,260]: Just like collecting stamps or building model trains or being part of the Lions Club [00:21:36,579]: But by the you know by the Obama years by like 2015 you’re in negative world where if you’re an evangelical Christian you are suspect [00:21:46,160]: You’re you’re probably a Nazi [00:21:48,099]: You’re probably a bigot [00:21:49,339]: You’re probably a white supremacist [00:21:50,660]: Right [00:21:51,219]: That’s the attitude that people ask you to push us to state for the one millionth time [00:21:55,040]: The Nazis were not Christians [00:21:59,040]: So they were not Christians but they love to throw those things around [00:22:02,800]: Did you know [00:22:04,400]: Yeah [00:22:06,280]: Yeah [00:22:08,040]: More Christians were killed by the Nazis than any other group [00:22:10,619]: Just a fact [00:22:12,660]: So anyway no the Nazis were not Christian [00:22:14,640]: So yeah [00:22:15,219]: Oh yeah [00:22:15,540]: Yeah [00:22:16,959]: Good to make [00:22:18,319]: Yeah [00:22:18,439]: Yeah [00:22:18,699]: Because they’ll clip this and they’ll say yeah [00:22:20,359]: Oh Andrew Isker is saying that the Christians are Nazis [00:22:23,400]: But so that that that period of time like there’s these widespread cultural shifts in the country [00:22:32,359]: And so I think a lot of it is just in response to that where you’re in that neutral world [00:22:36,920]: And so you had you had figures like like Rick Warren or Tim Keller who who sort of adapted these things [00:22:43,680]: So Tim Keller is in New York City and and he he tries to adapt Christianity to your upper middle class strive for people in New York City to make it easy for them to come to church [00:23:00,619]: So he wouldn’t ever talk about homosexuality or if he did it would be well that’s not so good for human flourishing [00:23:08,180]: But we’re not really going to talk about that too much [00:23:12,079]: There’s the former president of the Southern Baptist Convention J D [00:23:16,319]: Greer famously said in a sermon well the Bible just whispers about sexual sin but it shouts about about like financial sin or greed [00:23:27,560]: Right [00:23:28,000]: So they want to downplay [00:23:29,780]: Shots were both of them [00:23:30,619]: It does [00:23:31,180]: And the two are connected [00:23:32,680]: Right [00:23:33,260]: Yeah [00:23:33,839]: Right [00:23:34,319]: If you’re if you’re greedy for money you’re also going to be lusting after the flesh like that [00:23:38,800]: The two go hand in hand [00:23:41,900]: And and but it’s the downplay things that the culture does not want to hear [00:23:47,420]: Right [00:23:47,699]: Because you’ll be branded as a bigot as intolerant as a bad person [00:23:51,319]: If you’re just like well this is what the Bible says like this you know fornicators adulterers sodomites they will not inherit the kingdom of God [00:23:57,939]: Right [00:23:58,280]: If you say yes I agree with that [00:24:00,699]: Well you’re a bad person [00:24:01,780]: Right [00:24:02,339]: You’re you’re you are outside of polite society [00:24:05,859]: If you say those things and you can reject it you can reject Christianity itself [00:24:10,319]: And you’re certainly welcome to in this country and in all countries actually [00:24:14,282]: it doesn’t just say this parenthetically [00:24:17,582]: No [00:24:17,762]: It’s like included in a sidebar [00:24:19,262]: It says it again and again and again [00:24:21,482]: And in the church I grew up in they’re like well there are only four times where you know in the scriptures where people you know where homosexuality is attacked [00:24:30,822]: And it’s like since no one ever read it in my church no one knew [00:24:36,022]: But like I finally read it [00:24:37,982]: What the hell [00:24:38,582]: Why not read it [00:24:39,402]: And I did [00:24:41,142]: And I’ve never been anti gay or anything like that [00:24:45,282]: But by the end I was like oh there’s a really clear message [00:24:49,382]: Yeah [00:24:49,382]: From like the Hebrew scriptures all the way through the Christian to the New Testament [00:24:54,942]: And like again and again and again [00:24:57,742]: So you know again you don’t have to believe it [00:24:59,982]: But if you’re a believing Christian it’s not whispered at all [00:25:03,682]: Yeah you do [00:25:04,542]: Shout it [00:25:04,802]: You do have to believe it if you’re a believer in the Bible that God spoke [00:25:10,082]: Right [00:25:10,322]: And and so they’re they’re very fearful of those kinds of things [00:25:15,762]: But I mean the interesting thing now that we’re in you know what Ren calls negative world is is that young men who who are kind of you were raised most of them like race secular [00:25:31,402]: Right [00:25:31,622]: They went through the the whole new atheism thing [00:25:38,062]: They guys so many young men you know I see you know connect with me on on X and in places like that where they’re like hey I was not part of the church at all [00:25:49,022]: I was not a Christian [00:25:50,702]: And I see all of the evil everywhere [00:25:55,682]: Right [00:25:56,042]: I see the things like you’re talking about like they they are sacrificing babies [00:25:59,882]: I guess they care about this more than anything else that the ability to murder a baby [00:26:05,002]: They see things like the Ukraine war where it’s like our rulers just decided to have a war and kill millions of people for absolutely no reason [00:26:17,342]: And our proxies have banned the majority Christian faith [00:26:20,262]: Yes [00:26:21,282]: Banned the majority Christian faith the majority faith which is Christian in Ukraine [00:26:25,482]: And I just wonder just to go back to the atheists for a second [00:26:30,562]: What do they make of this [00:26:35,922]: Like I get it [00:26:37,422]: Yeah [00:26:37,442]: I can see why someone would have that view [00:26:39,222]: For sure [00:26:39,882]: Yeah [00:26:40,682]: I think that’s a pretty normal place to be [00:26:43,902]: I think it’s wrong but I don’t think it’s crazy [00:26:45,762]: Yeah [00:26:46,002]: But to be an atheist to have determined that there is no God like what do you make of the things you see around you if you never hold held someone’s hand while he dies [00:26:54,162]: Like what do you think that is [00:26:55,682]: Yeah [00:26:56,082]: You’ve never felt anything that is clearly outside of what science describes [00:27:01,382]: Like how determined are you to ignore your life [00:27:08,302]: Yeah [00:27:08,362]: Yeah [00:27:08,782]: That you become an atheist [00:27:09,922]: Like what is that [00:27:10,862]: I know it’s crazy [00:27:11,762]: Yeah [00:27:12,202]: I mean it’s funny because most of the people that you talk to are like when when they espouse kind of atheist ideas right they’ll retreat [00:27:20,402]: It’s kind of a Mott and Bailey thing where they’ll retreat to [00:27:23,682]: Well I really am agnostic [00:27:24,922]: I don’t really know for sure [00:27:26,022]: Right [00:27:26,362]: So there’s very few people very few especially now that are like no I’m an atheist [00:27:31,562]: There definitely is no God [00:27:33,442]: Right [00:27:33,482]: Well then why is murder wrong [00:27:35,642]: Yeah [00:27:35,762]: Yeah exactly [00:27:36,562]: Well because it is because it is [00:27:39,242]: Well OK I think it’s right [00:27:40,522]: Yeah [00:27:40,802]: So how does how can you tell me it’s wrong [00:27:42,982]: By what authority [00:27:43,742]: Yeah [00:27:44,062]: Yeah [00:27:44,502]: Because you feel that way [00:27:45,622]: That’s your authority your emotions [00:27:47,422]: And you would see this [00:27:48,762]: I remember [00:27:49,082]: So like the people you were saying who are atheists like they ever some of them are smart I assume [00:27:52,802]: Yeah [00:27:53,222]: Yeah [00:27:53,482]: What do they say to that [00:27:54,522]: I remember I remember watching you know a previous guest of yours actually the man who trained me in ministry Doug Wilson [00:28:02,982]: Yeah [00:28:03,442]: Debate [00:28:04,222]: Wonderful man [00:28:05,042]: Christopher Hitchens [00:28:05,542]: Oh yes [00:28:06,682]: And they had that discussion [00:28:08,742]: Right [00:28:09,262]: And it was it was shocking to watch Hitchens say well it’s you know it’s common human experience you know you know solidarity with mankind [00:28:18,542]: That’s why I think murder is wrong [00:28:20,442]: And of course Doug says to him well you know well if you saw someone being like murdered on the street you think that’s bad right [00:28:25,882]: Well and he goes into his whole spiel and he’s like well what if what if it’s a pregnant woman and her baby’s being murdered [00:28:34,242]: Right [00:28:34,582]: You would just say well no no you need to have a medical license for that to kill that person [00:28:39,442]: Right [00:28:40,122]: Like you got Christopher saying oh you’re being flippant [00:28:43,382]: You know you wouldn’t go down that road [00:28:45,282]: What’s so sad is I knew Christopher very well and always liked him enormously for his erudition his ability to recite long passages of poetry Philip Larkin and Orwell [00:28:57,622]: And you know he was just a he’s a reader like a real dedicated lifelong reader and a wonderful dinner and lunch companion [00:29:03,922]: I had many many highly drunken dinners with him before I quit drinking [00:29:09,402]: And but he was such and so I love Christopher but he was a moralizer [00:29:16,822]: Whoa [00:29:16,822]: Yeah [00:29:17,402]: And I never I was much younger 25 years younger than I am now [00:29:20,862]: And I never sort of put it in my mind [00:29:22,762]: Like how can an atheist be a moralizer [00:29:25,302]: Yeah [00:29:25,782]: Doesn’t make any sense actually [00:29:27,822]: Yeah [00:29:28,162]: And I agree with him on some things and disagree than others [00:29:30,142]: But he was always like in the pulpit actually [00:29:32,902]: Yeah [00:29:33,302]: Yeah [00:29:33,662]: Yeah [00:29:34,082]: And a lot of the atheists are [00:29:35,962]: Yeah [00:29:36,182]: What is that [00:29:37,862]: Well I think so much of it is is atheism really is an atheist moralizer [00:29:43,302]: It’s hilarious [00:29:43,762]: It’s a Christian heresy [00:29:44,942]: Like they want to they want to have all the things of Christianity just without without God there [00:29:49,702]: Right [00:29:50,102]: So they want to be able to pursue all of these things [00:29:54,002]: Right [00:29:54,182]: They want to be able to say this is right and this is wrong but have no no authority to ground it on [00:30:00,762]: Right [00:30:01,042]: Just just by their say so [00:30:02,582]: Right [00:30:02,922]: It’s so factuous though [00:30:04,282]: I mean conundrum [00:30:05,062]: Yeah [00:30:05,282]: Yeah [00:30:06,442]: It’s wrong [00:30:07,602]: Well you can you can see why [00:30:09,242]: Yeah [00:30:09,642]: You can see why it’s breaking down though today under the weight of its silliness [00:30:14,122]: Yeah [00:30:14,462]: Yeah [00:30:15,162]: It creates this vacuum and it’s being replaced by something [00:30:19,102]: So all of the all of the moralistic energy is still there [00:30:23,122]: And now it’s gone to to things like transgenderism abortion you know Gaza whatever whatever [00:30:30,602]: Like it goes it goes to all of those routes [00:30:32,782]: It goes to you know BLM and and rioting [00:30:36,562]: Yes that’s right [00:30:38,002]: And so it’s because it’s it’s in us [00:30:40,882]: Yeah it’s in us [00:30:41,862]: We can’t get away from the conviction the true conviction that some things are right and some things are wrong [00:30:47,762]: Yeah [00:30:48,102]: Yeah [00:30:48,482]: It’s it’s fundamentally human [00:30:50,422]: Absolutely [00:30:51,062]: So but an atheist would have to by definition be utterly non judgmental about everything [00:30:56,362]: Like you would think they should be but they’re the most judgmental people [00:31:01,462]: It’s unbelievable [00:31:01,882]: I mean Christopher at dinner was always lecturing about the Kurds and I’m nothing against the Kurds [00:31:07,962]: I don’t know much about the Kurds [00:31:09,022]: I ran into them in Iraq [00:31:10,322]: They were the most bloodthirsty people in Iraq [00:31:12,262]: I did notice that [00:31:14,922]: So again I’m not against the Kurds [00:31:16,382]: You know I’m not an expert in Kurdishness but he man he would like lay down his life for the Kurds [00:31:24,042]: Yeah [00:31:24,742]: I remember thinking what is this [00:31:26,142]: And it was the need to sort of find a good guy and a bad guy and put yourself in the good guy’s side [00:31:31,182]: Yeah [00:31:31,622]: Yeah [00:31:32,022]: And that’s that’s human [00:31:33,282]: We want that [00:31:35,222]: That’s totally true [00:31:36,182]: So what did you say to your church when you left [00:31:40,102]: That was that was one of the hardest days of my life [00:31:43,342]: I believe it [00:31:43,702]: Tell them I’m I’m leaving [00:31:46,142]: I’m going to Tennessee [00:31:47,922]: And it was it was difficult [00:31:51,142]: I still have a connection with them relationship with them [00:31:55,162]: Still I’m still trying to find them a pastor to replace me [00:31:58,742]: Right [00:31:59,042]: It’s hard to it’s hard for me to do that because like well you left Andrew [00:32:02,342]: You want me to go there now but they they need one [00:32:06,602]: And and they’re wonderful wonderful people who have have blessed me immensely [00:32:12,622]: And and I just told them that no I I have to leave Minnesota [00:32:19,142]: There is there’s a place for me there in in Tennessee [00:32:25,062]: And it’s it’s ultimately you know what is best for my family’s future [00:32:29,902]: Right [00:32:30,542]: There’s a place where where my children you know can grow up because part of it too is it isn’t just the things that that we’re leaving you know the political cultural things that we’re leaving in Minnesota but it’s also you know over all the things that have been done to the Midwest to to everywhere where my children grow up [00:32:51,702]: And if if they want to have a career and a life and family and a success of their own there just isn’t much for them in a small town Midwest [00:33:04,482]: And and so they’ll all just fly the coop [00:33:07,442]: Like I mean this is what happened [00:33:09,422]: Like when I graduate from high school most of the people that I grew up with they all they all left [00:33:14,882]: They went to the Twin Cities [00:33:15,722]: They went to other other cities for work and for for careers [00:33:20,962]: And and so that that same thing was likely going to happen with with my children [00:33:25,722]: And I look at it and I think well my family’s been here for six generations and whether it’s going to end here [00:33:34,002]: Right [00:33:34,462]: And I want I want to be in a place where we can continue that where we can be rooted where my children have the ability to stay in a place [00:33:45,102]: And and so so many so many friends are coming to to Tennessee where where we are [00:33:51,002]: They’re bringing businesses there [00:33:52,582]: And once you build things at scale like the more stuff you’re able to do the more businesses you’re able to have the more opportunity is for for young people [00:34:00,662]: And and so if my children want to stay where we are and continue that on generation after generation like we actually will be able to do that [00:34:09,622]: Right [00:34:10,022]: That’s it isn’t it wasn’t so much just OK we need to leave for a particular reason [00:34:19,022]: The Tennessee dream [00:34:19,622]: There’s a future there [00:34:20,362]: Yeah [00:34:20,662]: Yeah [00:34:21,102]: Yeah [00:34:21,442]: The hope of refugees from time immemorial [00:34:25,242]: Yeah [00:34:25,862]: What are the other churches in the state say as the state itself became a place that faithful Christians couldn’t live [00:34:34,002]: I mean there are a handful of of churches there that are that are very strong [00:34:38,562]: There are there are Christians there that that oppose these things [00:34:41,802]: But they’re so so vastly outnumbered [00:34:44,882]: Like when I went when I went to the state capitol to you know oppose the abortion bill there were lots of activists on both sides pro life activists and pro ritual sacrifice activists [00:34:59,582]: But there were there were no other pastors there [00:35:03,902]: I think the one of the Catholic bishops did a Skype call Zoom call [00:35:09,602]: But beyond that there were there were no other pastors [00:35:13,122]: And I’m thinking like my church is is like 30 40 people [00:35:16,042]: I do this you know it’s it’s a tent make [00:35:19,022]: I do I do a full time job and then do this [00:35:21,262]: I were tiny [00:35:22,402]: I’m I’m small [00:35:24,282]: I’m insignificant [00:35:25,442]: And and there are churches with 15 000 20 000 people prominent men in in the Twin Cities [00:35:33,302]: And and all I had to do was just send an email to the the clerk of the committee like hey can I have two minutes to speak [00:35:40,262]: No one showed up [00:35:41,222]: Right [00:35:41,622]: No one is there [00:35:42,202]: And it’s like no they’re going to like murder babies up to birth like enshrine this in in our law try to make a constitutional amendment for it all of these things [00:35:51,262]: And and no one is is opposing it [00:35:54,522]: Like I’m the only one that came [00:35:56,342]: I quoted the Bible and and opposed it as a Christian [00:36:02,242]: They there’s just so little fight there [00:36:06,022]: Christian has built your state [00:36:07,782]: Yes [00:36:08,342]: And all of it and every bit of it [00:36:11,462]: And it’s so telling when you go to the Twin Cities I think of them as Protestant and Catholic [00:36:16,502]: Yeah [00:36:16,762]: Yeah [00:36:17,062]: I think of them as Scandinavian in Minneapolis and Irish [00:36:21,002]: Yeah [00:36:21,202]: And and others in St [00:36:23,022]: Paul [00:36:23,202]: Yeah [00:36:23,642]: But both of them especially St [00:36:25,622]: Paul just littered with churches and schools [00:36:28,462]: And it’s just like the infrastructure of those cities was built by Christians [00:36:31,782]: Yeah [00:36:32,342]: Yeah [00:36:32,702]: And so it’s a little bit crazy that first of all it’s been taken over by people who who have made a point [00:36:39,182]: Yeah [00:36:39,702]: Just you know just stick a finger in the eye of Christians to make it impossible for them to live there [00:36:43,082]: It’s like you’re being driven out of your own homeland [00:36:45,882]: Six generations [00:36:46,782]: Yeah [00:36:46,922]: I mean this is what happened with with my wife is from St Paul [00:36:51,602]: Her father’s side of the family is Polish Catholic [00:36:55,902]: Yeah [00:36:56,102]: Went to St [00:36:57,502]: Casimir’s church [00:36:58,202]: Exactly [00:36:58,482]: And that’s exactly in my mind what I think in the neighborhood that they they were in [00:37:02,162]: It was all all Polish people [00:37:03,742]: Yeah [00:37:05,042]: But now it’s all it’s all Hmong [00:37:06,962]: Right [00:37:07,462]: Everywhere [00:37:08,022]: It’s all Hmong and Somali [00:37:10,422]: And everyone there just left over the last two or three generations [00:37:14,722]: What happened to their churches and parochial schools [00:37:16,402]: And like well St [00:37:17,562]: Casimir’s church is there but it’s it’s largely empty [00:37:20,462]: Right [00:37:20,702]: We went there for a funeral a couple of years ago but there’s people still attended [00:37:24,902]: But it’s not like it not like it was most of the most of the parishes there have shut down the church schools have have shut down and they’ve moved out to the suburbs [00:37:35,042]: And so that I mean it was that was a Polish neighborhood [00:37:38,322]: It was it was right [00:37:40,682]: This ethnic enclave [00:37:42,082]: If I can just say on showing myself to be an ethnic nationalist the poll they’re just like some of the greatest people I’ve ever met [00:37:50,822]: I don’t think I’ve ever met [00:37:51,622]: I have to say that married one [00:37:52,922]: So yeah I just think they’re great people [00:37:54,482]: I don’t know [00:37:55,382]: I’ve met many I don’t like [00:37:57,082]: But salt of the earth smart hardworking serious about faith and family [00:38:01,502]: Yeah [00:38:01,722]: Great people [00:38:02,462]: Yeah [00:38:03,302]: I doubt it was an improvement to change to St [00:38:05,822]: Paul [00:38:05,942]: In fact it wasn’t [00:38:06,762]: I’ve been [00:38:06,962]: No it’s like when when her parents finally moved like the whole area is is just is run down [00:38:13,462]: Lots of crime [00:38:14,882]: You know it’s sad because it was it was you could see the the the remnants of what was like the the drive through St [00:38:25,322]: Paul [00:38:25,542]: You see some of the old buildings and how beautiful they were how much care people put into these places [00:38:30,342]: And now they’re just falling apart [00:38:32,262]: Bars on windows everywhere [00:38:33,822]: Factory workers like basically tithing to build the infrastructure of churches and schools [00:38:39,582]: Yes [00:38:39,802]: And their own homes [00:38:40,882]: Yeah [00:38:41,202]: You know people with no money giving [00:38:42,922]: Yeah [00:38:43,442]: The maximum amount to build all this stuff for their families [00:38:46,622]: And then it’s just some politician decides oh this is too so we need to [00:38:52,062]: Yeah [00:38:52,902]: Yeah [00:38:53,442]: Destroy it all and destroy all the people [00:38:55,322]: It it’s a crime on a level that only historians will be able to assess clearly [00:39:00,002]: But yeah [00:39:01,062]: OK sorry [00:39:02,342]: So so can we just before you get into what’s happening in Tennessee so discursive it’s my fault [00:39:08,202]: But what why aren’t the fearsome evangelicals who I will still defend [00:39:13,702]: Absolutely [00:39:14,222]: I’m just saying that the lady absolutely defend them [00:39:16,422]: Well the lady [00:39:16,962]: Yeah [00:39:17,402]: No a million of them [00:39:18,762]: Yeah [00:39:19,002]: And I love them [00:39:20,882]: In fact there’s some working here right now in this office [00:39:23,842]: But the preachers like where were they during all of this [00:39:30,342]: Oh I mean I think it’s it’s it’s largely the contemporary evangelical mode of being is is I mean so much of it [00:39:41,322]: I look back to it being going all the way back to something like the Second Great Awakening [00:39:47,922]: Right [00:39:48,002]: Where the purpose of the major change that took place there is it’s all about conversionism [00:39:57,042]: Right [00:39:57,762]: And and it becomes a big show and marketing and and all of that [00:40:02,882]: And that’s where you got the 10 revival [00:40:04,522]: Yeah [00:40:04,862]: Yes [00:40:05,402]: Yeah [00:40:05,822]: Charles Finney those those kinds of things [00:40:07,562]: Well that that’s kind of in the DNA at least somewhat within evangelicalism [00:40:11,902]: To put a finer point on what you’re saying the point became the more souls we convert the more people who who profess faith [00:40:19,002]: Yeah that’s like the scorecard that we use [00:40:20,982]: Yeah that’s the metric that that that everyone follows [00:40:25,922]: And and so you look at it and you think well if we just if we just water it down a little bit more make it more palatable to people you know just get more more butts in the seats [00:40:35,722]: Right [00:40:36,262]: Then that’s the metric of success not the internal development discipleship of people not not actual repentance and conversion not you know fundamental life change and so forth that traditional Christianity always was [00:40:55,382]: It’s if we just get them here [00:40:57,302]: And of course if they put some money in the plate and and they’re attending that’s what matters [00:41:03,082]: So you see churches where it’s like OK we have amazing production values [00:41:07,442]: We have a great band and all of these things [00:41:09,462]: And it’s it’s all of these entertainments to get people in or the sermon is is sort of like a self help talk [00:41:15,202]: There isn’t really Bible in it at all [00:41:17,162]: Or if it is it’s like tangentially related to to something that the pastor wants to say [00:41:22,202]: It’s not all right [00:41:23,342]: We’re going to go through a chapter of Leviticus today and explain what the sacrifices are about [00:41:27,642]: Well there’s no there’s none of those things [00:41:30,241]: And so you see you know many evangelical people have not been taught really any Bible or theology at all [00:41:38,062]: And you see this in like surveys like the Barna Group does surveys and what people believe about different things [00:41:43,861]: And and they haven’t been taught any Bible [00:41:46,722]: They don’t they don’t know it [00:41:48,101]: And so then when you know when the the liberal says well the Bible condemns eating shellfish and pork and in the same way it condemns homosexuality [00:41:58,782]: So what do you have to say about that [00:41:59,702]: And they have no idea how to explain that what that is about [00:42:03,882]: And and their faith is shaken or didn’t destroy two cities with sulfur and fire because people are eating pork [00:42:10,342]: That’s right [00:42:11,741]: Destroy them because they tried to [00:42:14,682]: Commit gay rape on an angel [00:42:16,422]: Yeah [00:42:16,741]: Yeah [00:42:17,241]: And they’ll say that with well the sin of Sodom was in hospitality [00:42:21,322]: No it wasn’t [00:42:22,442]: Well I mean I guess it was gay rape [00:42:23,942]: Yeah [00:42:24,882]: I mean the least hospitable thing you could do [00:42:26,922]: I mean just read it if you want [00:42:28,162]: It’s like yeah it’s pretty out there [00:42:30,361]: Yeah [00:42:30,601]: It’s like well yeah the least hospitable thing you could do to a guest is to anally rape them [00:42:35,481]: Yeah [00:42:35,722]: So all the men of the town came out [00:42:37,762]: They demanded [00:42:38,741]: Yeah [00:42:38,882]: We need to know these angels to have sex with these angels [00:42:42,782]: And then lots like I’ve got some daughters in here [00:42:45,702]: Take them [00:42:46,481]: Yeah [00:42:46,802]: Kind of takes a lot off my Christmas card list saying something like that [00:42:50,182]: But whatever he does that it’s in Genesis [00:42:52,861]: And they’re like no we want to rape the dudes like that [00:42:56,762]: It’s like it’s these are not euphemisms [00:42:58,702]: No [00:42:59,302]: Pretty straightforward [00:42:59,762]: Yeah [00:42:59,922]: Yeah [00:43:00,182]: I mean I actually I just read Genesis 19 to my children and there were some questions from the [00:43:08,002]: It was funny I read that a couple of years ago for the first time I’ll admit it [00:43:12,222]: And my wife who’s a very serious and wonderful person but a serious Christian we’re on a walk and I was told her what I had read the night before [00:43:21,422]: And she’s like what [00:43:23,342]: What [00:43:24,422]: You know she’s just like she’s the model for me as a faithful person [00:43:29,442]: But she was like that’s no way [00:43:31,962]: And I was like it’s in there [00:43:33,262]: That’s what happened [00:43:34,222]: Yes [00:43:34,962]: Yes [00:43:35,562]: Yeah [00:43:36,481]: And so I think about that [00:43:38,082]: And it’s like I mean it’s funny like even at my little little church I I just preach through the Bible [00:43:46,442]: Right [00:43:46,962]: So I’ll just take a chapter and I’ll talk about it [00:43:49,861]: I’ll explain what’s going on all of these things [00:43:52,262]: And I mean I have I have some you know wonderful people there older people that have been Christians you know their entire adult lives and they’re in their 70s [00:44:01,962]: And one of them said to me you know Andrew that’s that’s the first time someone has ever preached from the Book of Judges in a church service [00:44:11,262]: I went through the entire book and then well let’s do Ruth and then first Samuel and second Samuel [00:44:18,622]: And and and it’s like well there’s so much there [00:44:22,042]: So much there [00:44:23,361]: I mean I had friends come down that were sort of you know new and becoming Christians out of being secular their whole lives [00:44:32,642]: And they’re like whoa the Bible is extremely metal [00:44:36,741]: This is this is wild [00:44:41,662]: Like and and I’m like yeah I’m and I’m explaining it you know sort of in like this you know mere shimmery real politic way [00:44:50,741]: And they’re just like at the edge of their seats like whoa oh that’s crazy that that I know [00:44:56,502]: And so I love it [00:44:58,222]: And I can see why I don’t claim to understand a lot of the Old Testament starting to figure out the New Testament more but just having read it cold a couple of times just like a book like you would read Anna Karenina or Moby Dick [00:45:11,822]: It’s like the wildest coolest most interesting most profound [00:45:16,782]: Like those are not overstatements at all [00:45:18,822]: Yeah [00:45:19,062]: And I think everybody should [00:45:20,942]: It’s the basis of Western civilization [00:45:22,422]: I don’t know why people don’t read it [00:45:23,981]: There’s obviously a reason [00:45:25,422]: Or even if you’re an atheist how could you not read the Bible [00:45:27,861]: Like everything we have is founded on [00:45:30,241]: Yes [00:45:30,402]: The ideas in this [00:45:32,842]: And like you’re basically illiterate if you haven’t read it [00:45:35,442]: Oh I mean you even you can see this [00:45:40,601]: It’s and they’re like oh there’s this weird illusion here that and it’s like he’s talking about a whale swallowing a man [00:45:49,762]: I don’t really know what’s going on [00:45:50,762]: And it’s like that’s the book of Jonah [00:45:53,142]: How do you not [00:45:54,182]: How do you not know what that’s about [00:45:55,361]: But they have no idea [00:45:56,601]: It’s just so compelling [00:45:58,122]: Yeah [00:45:58,462]: Of all the New Year’s resolutions you’re likely to put off the one you’re most likely to put off and keep putting off is buying life insurance [00:46:06,162]: And you should have life insurance [00:46:07,502]: It’s kind of crazy not to because the future is unknown [00:46:11,202]: You’ve got to have life insurance [00:46:12,222]: But you may not have life insurance because it’s a huge hassle and it can be a huge rip off [00:46:18,762]: But there is an answer policy genius [00:46:22,262]: It makes it very easy and much cheaper [00:46:25,402]: You can find life insurance policies started 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yeah I did hours on a plane [00:47:18,326]: And I texted my wife from the plane I was like this is excellent actually [00:47:21,726]: It’s just excellent [00:47:22,786]: I thought it was going to be all like sacrificing doves because you have your period that’s in there [00:47:27,426]: But like 95 of it made sense to me [00:47:30,746]: And it’s real like it’s tangible right it’s you know in theological terms incarnational like it’s the real tangible world that people interact with right that’s there [00:47:42,646]: And people always ask me like well Andrew what’s your favorite book of the Bible [00:47:45,906]: And I love to I mean sometimes I love to get a rise out of people but I tell them well Leviticus is and they’re like what really [00:47:56,746]: And I’m like yeah like I mean I’m a pastor [00:47:59,366]: My calling is to is to preach the gospel and to lead worship [00:48:02,526]: And that book right there all of it is about how to sinful people draw near and approach the presence of a holy just righteous God that cannot bear sin at all [00:48:17,566]: And there it’s laid out for us all of it [00:48:20,466]: And and even like you look at Leviticus chapter nine like you read that maybe you remember reading it [00:48:27,466]: I’m actually going through this with with my church right now in Tennessee [00:48:31,586]: But Leviticus chapter nine is the entire liturgy of the church right there [00:48:38,146]: Each each of the sacrifices and all of the like Western liturgy for 2000 years basically follows it [00:48:45,006]: Right [00:48:45,186]: You you’re called into the presence of God [00:48:48,886]: You you confess your sins [00:48:50,946]: I mean you probably like your Episcopalian upbringing book of common prayer like you probably track with this [00:48:56,166]: Right [00:48:56,706]: You confess [00:48:57,066]: They never admitted that in our church [00:48:59,606]: Maybe they didn’t have a confession of city years but but there’s a confession of sin [00:49:04,446]: Right [00:49:04,746]: Then there’s an ascension [00:49:06,006]: Right [00:49:06,266]: The ascension offering in chapter one of Leviticus [00:49:09,626]: Right [00:49:09,746]: The entire the worshiper puts his hand on the animal [00:49:12,446]: Right [00:49:12,886]: Saying like this animal’s me [00:49:14,426]: And then the entire thing is is consumed is burned up [00:49:17,086]: Right [00:49:17,506]: Ola [00:49:17,986]: Right [00:49:18,226]: Where the word Holocaust comes from consumed burned up goes up to God in smoke [00:49:23,786]: And that’s you [00:49:25,066]: Right [00:49:25,246]: That’s when [00:49:26,646]: And then the New Testament where it says the word of God is living and active sharper than any two edged sword [00:49:31,506]: What’s the sort of the priest that cuts the animal and puts it on the altar and burns it up [00:49:36,166]: Well that’s what’s happening when the church hears the Bible read and hears it preached [00:49:40,426]: Right [00:49:40,646]: You’re being cut up by the word of God and ascending up to God in smoke [00:49:44,506]: And then the next part of the service is the peace offering [00:49:48,546]: Well that’s communion [00:49:49,786]: Right [00:49:50,166]: You sit down and have a meal with with God and then you’re sent out [00:49:53,506]: Right [00:49:53,806]: The entire liturgy is right there like our actual worship that we do now right after the death of Jesus and resurrection of Jesus [00:50:01,166]: Right [00:50:01,566]: Sacrifice is done away with because he he is that sacrifice [00:50:05,686]: And we’re going through all of that each time we worship and and renew the covenant with God [00:50:11,846]: And and like you see that in Leviticus and it’s like whoa actually there’s so much to learn here in this book about what we are doing every every Sunday when we when we worship God [00:50:23,306]: So I’m like yeah this of course is my favorite book [00:50:25,606]: Right [00:50:25,886]: Not just because I’m autistic and like lots of rules and regulations [00:50:30,486]: Right [00:50:30,666]: It’s like reading the reading the instructions on on the Monopoly game you know like no it’s it’s it’s there like so much is happening [00:50:38,746]: It’s it’s it’s beautiful [00:50:41,046]: And the prescriptions or the prohibitions more precisely are surprisingly like sensible [00:50:49,286]: Yeah [00:50:49,606]: And one of the challenges to atheism is to explain why the atheist would agree with the overwhelming majority of what’s prohibited [00:50:57,366]: Yeah [00:50:57,846]: Because it’s it’s in him [00:50:59,426]: He knows that’s wrong [00:51:00,266]: Don’t have sex with your sister [00:51:01,466]: OK [00:51:01,866]: Oh yeah [00:51:02,906]: And most people most atheists would be like yeah well obviously [00:51:07,926]: But of course he has no grounds upon which to say that [00:51:10,606]: Yeah [00:51:10,846]: There’s literally no law he can appeal to to say that [00:51:12,886]: He says that obviously because like he grew up and was is reared and absorbs by osmosis like Christian culture where that’s prohibited [00:51:20,486]: I think that’s right [00:51:21,386]: Yeah [00:51:21,566]: I also think in primitive cultures that have never had exposure to Christianity I mean I don’t know that there are many cultures where most of the prohibitions in Leviticus would be considered crazy [00:51:33,446]: No [00:51:34,146]: Or esoteric [00:51:34,466]: Or like why would you ban that [00:51:35,766]: It’s like everyone [00:51:37,066]: I’m like of course [00:51:38,606]: Well even like you you think about this there was there’s a pastor theologian brilliant guy Peter Lightheart who wrote a book Delivered from the Elements of the World [00:51:50,146]: And in that he shows I mean there’s tons of just amazing stuff in this book [00:51:56,186]: But one of the things that he shows is that God makes these restrictions for for Israel in the old covenant that sets them apart as this holy people as the priestly people [00:52:08,646]: And but elsewhere in the world they all have something like that [00:52:13,366]: All throughout the ancient world their gods had something like a funhouse mirror version of Leviticus where it’s like OK here’s all these rules about sex and what makes you clean and unclean and food you can eat and can’t eat [00:52:26,026]: The Egyptians had this the Babylonians the Persians Greeks all of them have these kinds of the Mayans the Incas the Aztecs the Norse like my ancestors the Germanics like they all had these rules [00:52:37,566]: And it’s well it’s because in the ancient world they’re all under their own particular gods [00:52:42,766]: Right [00:52:44,146]: And what what Jesus does is he comes and he he takes the world back from Satan and from all the demons that ruled over the ancient world [00:52:54,946]: And and now he’s reigning over heaven [00:52:57,446]: That’s actually like the Book of Revelation [00:53:01,496]: That’s actually like what’s going on in that book [00:53:03,466]: The much maligned Book of Revelation [00:53:05,726]: Yeah [00:53:05,806]: Like I know you had you had John Rich on you know last year and he’s talking about dispensationalism and things like that [00:53:12,866]: And I was like oh I’m going to be in Tennessee [00:53:15,486]: I need to meet him and talk to him about this [00:53:17,506]: Did you [00:53:18,066]: I haven’t [00:53:18,766]: No I have no way of getting in touch with maybe after this [00:53:21,486]: If you watch it [00:53:22,806]: Yeah [00:53:23,006]: It’s a good man [00:53:23,746]: Oh I love [00:53:24,446]: I mean he was like the soundtrack of my youth of country music [00:53:28,246]: Like he wrote all those songs [00:53:29,646]: Right [00:53:30,046]: So on that basis alone [00:53:31,746]: Right [00:53:32,146]: But he’s talking about like dispensationalism and what has happened in in American Christianity for the last 130 years how it’s actually a novel new thing [00:53:43,106]: And and for me it was it was like yeah I looked at that [00:53:48,106]: I mean I remember growing up and that’s just everything like left behind [00:53:51,446]: And the rapture is coming and all of that [00:53:54,366]: So I missed all of that [00:53:56,106]: Yeah [00:53:56,446]: Yeah [00:53:56,746]: You’re talking about [00:53:57,806]: Yeah [00:53:58,166]: It’s a thing [00:53:59,086]: Like like especially and of course like I’m very critical of it [00:54:04,466]: But like these are the these are the best people in America that believe it like the people that have like six Trump flags on the back of their truck [00:54:13,066]: I totally agree [00:54:13,766]: Like they they also believe that well the rapture is coming tomorrow [00:54:17,266]: We need to be ready for it [00:54:18,686]: And so I’m anytime I’m critical of it I’m like OK I’m not critical of the people like there’s not a moral defect that they believe these things [00:54:26,066]: I totally [00:54:27,186]: First of all thank you for saying that [00:54:28,386]: Second I feel what you’re saying especially with the evangelicals [00:54:32,226]: I look at these you know greaseball preachers who I honestly I find disgusting [00:54:37,066]: And then I see the people go to their churches and I’m like oh I love you [00:54:40,026]: You’re exactly my kind of people are the most decent people in this country [00:54:44,306]: You’re trying your very hardest against headwinds that are so unfair and you’re doing a great job anyway [00:54:50,426]: And I just love that [00:54:51,306]: I really mean it [00:54:51,966]: I love them [00:54:52,506]: So I never want to criticize [00:54:54,706]: Yeah [00:54:54,886]: Right [00:54:55,146]: Because yeah [00:54:56,626]: Yeah [00:54:56,946]: And so like [00:54:58,246]: And so whenever I’m critical of that theology I’m like I have to make sure people don’t like I’m not criticizing you because you’re great [00:55:05,526]: Awesome people [00:55:06,366]: Like even when I when I first went to the town in Gainesboro before we decided you know before we made our move I was right after the hurricane which it wasn’t far from there [00:55:15,546]: And this is a town that like they don’t have a whole lot [00:55:18,266]: The median income is not very high in this town but I’m driving around in every gas station [00:55:22,466]: Where is it [00:55:23,206]: It’s in Gainesboro [00:55:23,686]: Tennessee is in Jackson County [00:55:25,526]: It’s like north central Tennessee [00:55:27,806]: OK [00:55:28,306]: And yeah [00:55:29,446]: And so every gas station every gas station has like signs up like hey we’re going to we’re going to Western North Carolina to go help out [00:55:36,746]: And it’s like like people that don’t have a whole like they’re they’re taking their time and what little money they have to go help people [00:55:43,626]: And meanwhile you know the Biden administration is sending billions more to Ukraine and into Israel and everything [00:55:49,906]: And they’re taking their time [00:55:51,386]: It’s like these are wonderful people [00:55:52,686]: They are [00:55:53,506]: And I will say for Trump whatever people think of Trump I know Trump well enough to have talked to him about this kind of stuff and you know away from cameras in his affection love gratitude toward those specific people is totally real [00:56:07,386]: Yeah [00:56:07,626]: And you can argue about whether you know which policies serve those people best or whatever [00:56:11,466]: But it all the leadership begins with love [00:56:13,826]: If you don’t love the people you lead you’ll mistreat them [00:56:15,946]: And you see it reciprocated [00:56:17,386]: Right [00:56:17,826]: But it’s totally real [00:56:20,446]: Yeah [00:56:20,966]: Completely real [00:56:21,846]: And it’s emotional [00:56:23,206]: And he’s like I love those people [00:56:25,246]: Yeah [00:56:25,966]: Yeah [00:56:27,326]: And he eats McDonald’s in private [00:56:29,046]: Yeah [00:56:29,866]: That’s right [00:56:31,006]: So that is I just want to say that because I know that for a fact you know a lot of politics is obviously fake and yeah but that part that specific part of Trump like loving people like that [00:56:41,486]: Oh man [00:56:42,466]: Well and it’s the people that are you know the most maligned in our country [00:56:46,346]: Like like if the only people you can make fun of are like rural Southern Appalachian people [00:56:52,946]: Right [00:56:53,466]: That’s free game [00:56:54,306]: You can criticize them all you want and mock them like you know Jimmy Kimmel can can make fun of them all day long on his show [00:57:01,786]: No other group of people can you do that for [00:57:04,586]: And and they’re the people that have been have been dispossessed of their country the most [00:57:10,246]: And and I like this is a big reason why we moved to this place is these are the people that are hated [00:57:16,166]: I want to go live with them [00:57:18,126]: Yes [00:57:18,546]: I want to be around these because they’re great people with the desire and cheerful too [00:57:23,606]: Wonderful people [00:57:24,326]: Yeah [00:57:24,566]: I live in a place a lot of people like that [00:57:26,606]: And you know every third person has a child or grandson who’s died of a drug OD and like there’s no year round work and there’s just a lot of problems and these are like you can pull into their driveway on a Sunday and they will just they’ll have a six pack and they’ll give you two of them [00:57:41,326]: I mean they really are just the most generous kind hilarious wise just good people [00:57:47,286]: Yeah [00:57:47,506]: The best [00:57:48,206]: The best that this country’s ever produced in my opinion [00:57:50,826]: Yeah [00:57:51,026]: Absolutely [00:57:51,706]: I’m not I’m not from those people at all [00:57:53,966]: So I’m like coming at this like wow these people are incredible [00:57:56,946]: Yeah absolutely [00:57:58,386]: And and so you know I think about that [00:58:00,806]: Right [00:58:01,186]: And I think about the theology that has been that that has shaped their outlook [00:58:07,486]: And it’s understandable because like you’re especially in the midst of like serious decline [00:58:11,406]: It’s like well actually it’s sort of attractive to have this eschatology where everything is coming to an end [00:58:19,306]: Right [00:58:19,606]: You can understand why people would would eat that up [00:58:22,346]: But the people that actually built America you know the Puritans and all of the the settlers of this country you think of even like the founding generation that that theology did not exist yet [00:58:33,706]: That wasn’t until the middle of the 19th century that it came into being like they were actually optimistic [00:58:39,166]: Right [00:58:39,326]: They they viewed this continent as as a place for for Christians to to build to to grow to have a future [00:58:49,346]: What an interesting point [00:58:52,166]: Well I’ve never thought of that before [00:58:53,606]: So dispensationalism for those who haven’t followed it is normally criticized and defended because of its interpretation of what biblical Israel is now [00:59:04,486]: OK [00:59:05,506]: Yeah [00:59:06,146]: So it’s like it’s a super electric topic both theologically and politically [00:59:12,986]: And people get utterly hysterical about it and start calling names or whatever [00:59:17,126]: Yeah [00:59:17,406]: So there’s that [00:59:18,466]: But you’re saying that the deeper or a deeper problem with it is that it makes people pessimistic [00:59:27,086]: Yeah [00:59:27,446]: You flush it out a little bit [00:59:28,926]: Yeah [00:59:29,046]: So I think if I mean if you think if you go your entire life believing that any minute the world is going to come to an end that I’m going to float up into heaven and my clothes will be here and everything everything we we’re gone it’s it’s done it’s over right [00:59:48,986]: Well that that takes a people that ordinarily are are very low time preference that that build things for the future that that delay gratification and all of those kinds of things [01:00:01,566]: And it flips it around and makes them very high time preference where it’s like well if the world’s not gonna be around tomorrow why invest in anything for today [01:00:09,306]: And you can even see this in terms of architecture [01:00:11,586]: Right [01:00:11,786]: You think the buildings that that churches have well they they’re in strip malls or they’re you know just they’re kind of ugly [01:00:20,546]: Yeah [01:00:20,786]: Yeah [01:00:21,266]: And you look at the buildings that it’s like a former former pet store [01:00:25,086]: Yeah [01:00:25,106]: And you look at the buildings that Christians had before [01:00:28,226]: This was the dominant theology [01:00:30,506]: And they’re gorgeous [01:00:31,226]: They’re beautiful [01:00:31,586]: And there were very poor people that made them like you said earlier [01:00:36,026]: And and it’s like that that that right there like you see it tangibly that and you think about that in terms of all of life [01:00:43,486]: That is so smart [01:00:44,226]: And what was the phrase used [01:00:45,686]: Low time preference [01:00:46,486]: Yeah [01:00:46,766]: Low time preference [01:00:47,626]: It’s like an economic phrase [01:00:49,026]: Right [01:00:49,366]: So [01:00:50,046]: Right [01:00:50,486]: Your your preference [01:00:51,366]: Please respect my ignorance [01:00:54,866]: Yes [01:00:55,406]: Yes [01:00:55,506]: It just means that you you’re going to wait longer for things [01:01:03,006]: It’s sort of like the marshmallow test with little kids [01:01:05,606]: Right [01:01:05,866]: Yes [01:01:06,286]: Yeah [01:01:06,706]: Where the one where they get five minutes you’ll get two marshmallows or you can eat this one right now [01:01:11,086]: Right [01:01:11,446]: Well the the the child that says oh I’ll wait [01:01:13,826]: I want to [01:01:15,046]: Right [01:01:15,186]: Well he’s going to go on and have more success and so forth versus the one that has that immediately grabs the one [01:01:21,346]: It eats it [01:01:22,026]: Right [01:01:22,286]: Well that’s that’s low time preference [01:01:24,146]: It’s [01:01:24,366]: Yes [01:01:24,586]: It’s a people that will delay gratification who will save and invest and and build things for the long term for the future [01:01:33,226]: And for future generations [01:01:34,666]: Yes [01:01:35,226]: Yeah [01:01:35,666]: They plant oak trees [01:01:37,106]: Yes [01:01:37,626]: Who plants oak trees [01:01:39,166]: Yeah [01:01:39,366]: Well I mean we’re going to in tennis [01:01:41,286]: We want to bring back the American chestnut in Tennessee [01:01:44,946]: We want to bring that back [01:01:46,486]: Are you putting in evergreens please [01:01:47,926]: Oh I think everything [01:01:49,106]: Yeah [01:01:49,306]: I mean there’s there’s pines [01:01:50,626]: Yeah [01:01:51,186]: There’s [01:01:51,686]: Please don’t neglect the pine [01:01:53,186]: Oh yeah [01:01:53,506]: Yeah [01:01:53,846]: I know it’s a fast growing tree relatively speaking but it’s it’s beautiful [01:01:57,506]: It’s the answer [01:01:58,106]: And cedars if you can [01:01:59,326]: Oh you have water [01:02:00,966]: Yeah [01:02:01,166]: I don’t know if we’ll be able [01:02:03,126]: OK [01:02:03,446]: Now we’re going to get it [01:02:04,306]: Since you’re a preacher and Old Testament scholar what was the inside of the temple clad with [01:02:09,746]: Cedar [01:02:10,026]: Yeah [01:02:10,286]: From Lebanon [01:02:10,966]: Exactly [01:02:11,626]: Yeah [01:02:11,866]: Yeah [01:02:12,246]: God himself said cedar [01:02:13,586]: That’s right [01:02:14,246]: Yeah [01:02:14,466]: An accident [01:02:15,106]: He was pretty specific about it [01:02:16,266]: Yeah [01:02:16,966]: Yeah [01:02:17,746]: It smells great [01:02:19,326]: Maybe there’s a reason my sauna has cedar in the [01:02:21,206]: That’s right [01:02:21,986]: That’s right [01:02:22,886]: I always tell my kids that [01:02:24,406]: Just think of it like the temple [01:02:25,146]: It’s my cedar church [01:02:26,146]: That’s right [01:02:26,646]: No sacrifices however [01:02:28,046]: Well here’s something you may not have known [01:02:29,466]: This network almost didn’t exist [01:02:31,906]: Trademark issue almost prevented us from launching by blocking us from using the name TCN [01:02:37,686]: Now a company called the American Country Network owned the rights to that trademark and we were not sure if they would give them up [01:02:43,546]: Looking back American Country Network could have demanded a lot of money [01:02:47,306]: They could have held us up at gunpoint in exchange for the name TCN and a lot of businesses would have done that but they didn’t [01:02:53,046]: They were incredibly nice [01:02:55,526]: They gave us the name for free and they gave it to us quick [01:03:00,246]: That’s when we realized this is not your average company at all [01:03:03,246]: These are really really nice people and we’re glad this happened because it let us get to know the American Country Network [01:03:08,746]: It turns out it’s a great place [01:03:11,006]: Its leaders are excellent people of the same values that we do and we think that you do [01:03:16,026]: American Country Network is a family friendly conservative Christian group bringing the best country music to millions of households across the country and it’s growing fast [01:03:22,906]: They launched just last year [01:03:24,406]: They plan to reach 40 million homes in 2025 [01:03:27,546]: As the only Nashville based country music network left there’s only one American Country Network is here to stay [01:03:34,386]: We really cannot recommend them highly enough to you and we’re grateful to them for their kindness to us [01:03:39,506]: They did it for no reason other than to be nice so we’re especially grateful for that [01:03:43,766]: We always are [01:03:44,766]: So go to acncountry com to enjoy everything they have including their 24 7 live stream [01:03:49,966]: We hope you will [01:03:50,886]: I’m sorry I’ve gone so far afield but so your point is that dispensationalism not only has specious theological elements which I think very obviously it does and by the way it it the whole theology was like laid out in the end notes [01:04:09,586]: It’s not actually in the Bible [01:04:11,266]: No no [01:04:12,506]: It’s like interpretation in the that version of the Bible [01:04:14,066]: Yeah I mean like John Nelson Darby and Cyrus Schofield and it’s and there’s I mean they’ll claim that they’re antecedents from the early church like well this guy believed in in something like the rapture and it’s like well it’s always very like you said specious [01:04:26,946]: Yeah I that’s that’s my read as a non theologian but it does seem incredibly silly but but it’s sincere [01:04:34,726]: So okay [01:04:35,466]: Yeah people yeah exactly [01:04:36,466]: People sincerely believe it so I don’t want to mock them [01:04:37,866]: A hundred percent [01:04:38,666]: A lot of people I really like and respect believe it so I just want to say that [01:04:42,606]: But you’re saying that the cost is even deeper because it changes your worldview and makes it very difficult for you to engage in the labor of like for example loving people around you and building something beautiful which are also Christian imperatives [01:04:58,126]: Is that what you’re saying [01:04:58,586]: Yeah I think so [01:04:59,426]: It also yeah so it it it forces you into into an immediacy right [01:05:06,766]: We got to do everything right now because there isn’t going to be a future [01:05:10,326]: There’s not going to be I mean I heard this all the time growing up [01:05:13,626]: Well you know we’re not going to be around we’re going to be raptured so why why plan for the future [01:05:19,186]: Why build things for the future [01:05:20,486]: Why why plan [01:05:21,086]: You heard that growing up [01:05:21,946]: Oh yeah [01:05:22,446]: This was this was just everywhere in evangelicalism [01:05:25,586]: Did you grow up in that [01:05:26,526]: Yeah yeah yeah [01:05:28,186]: I did [01:05:29,446]: And I remember I remember in college when I was first getting into more historical theology or thinking like what did people believe before the 19th century about things [01:05:41,546]: And it’s like oh [01:05:42,646]: For the first 1800 years [01:05:43,826]: Yeah [01:05:44,146]: What what did they well there were there are various different eschatological schools [01:05:48,426]: Like there’s all sorts of different views of of how the end works [01:05:52,686]: But when I first get into that and I’m thinking like oh I don’t know if I actually believe in the rapture [01:05:56,466]: And I remember being in college and in campus ministry and telling people this like I don’t know if I actually believe in that [01:06:02,006]: I mean it was it was like I just uttered the greatest heresy of all time [01:06:07,426]: Like I could have said I probably could have said well you know just denied the Trinity or something [01:06:12,846]: Right [01:06:13,406]: And they would have been like oh cool [01:06:14,786]: That’s interesting [01:06:15,506]: But saying I don’t think there’s a rapture what [01:06:18,046]: Are you serious [01:06:19,366]: Right [01:06:20,086]: Like that is central doctrine to to many Christians [01:06:23,746]: And and it has this deep emotional connection because I mean if you’ve been if you’ve grown up your entire life hearing this and it’s just assumed by everybody right it’s it’s hard to break out of that even though the everybody of the historic church of millions or billions of Christians right it’s actually a tiny minority in the history of the church that is believed that but presently it’s a majority of evangelicals [01:06:48,886]: Yeah [01:06:49,266]: It seems like that theology is dying [01:06:51,046]: That’s just my sense [01:06:51,846]: But I I’d be the last to really know [01:06:53,446]: No I I think your your instincts are correct [01:06:56,586]: I think some of it is I mean some of it too especially in the latter half of the 20th century right after right Israel is formalized as a state and in 1948 well that that gives like big confirmation that okay things are happening like there’s an Israel in revelation and a temple in revelation [01:07:13,646]: So it’s happening guys [01:07:15,446]: So we’ve got 40 years right 1988 [01:07:18,126]: That’s the end [01:07:18,666]: Well then that doesn’t happen [01:07:19,666]: And then people make all sorts of other guesses [01:07:22,106]: I wasn’t even aware of that [01:07:24,006]: So the idea was 1988 the end of the world [01:07:25,906]: Yeah 40 years after 1948 right that that’s when the rapture is coming [01:07:30,406]: That was a you know I think it was there was a book like 88 Reasons Why Jesus is Coming Back in 1988 right [01:07:37,326]: And I’m sure it sold a lot of copies and then of course didn’t didn’t happen [01:07:42,986]: Wow [01:07:43,186]: But uh [01:07:44,066]: Mike Takakas lost [01:07:45,166]: Yes [01:07:47,286]: No I mean that’s not obviously the rapture but you know whatever we’ll take it for people of Massachusetts [01:07:53,146]: Maybe it was but uh but uh yeah it it it uh it you know it’s it’s just so interesting because like I look at it like you look at um Matthew 24 right [01:08:03,466]: That’s the big you know the big text um that people point to and um where Jesus says well there you know there’s going to be wars and rumors of wars and earthquakes in various places and plagues and things like that [01:08:17,306]: Um but right before it right well Jesus is in the temple [01:08:21,328]: And he’s fighting with the chief priests and he’s telling them you know he’s just he’s fighting with them at Passover [01:08:27,868]: So thousands of people surrounding them he’s embarrassing them in the temple [01:08:33,308]: And his boldness is really shocking to people who haven’t read it before [01:08:37,908]: Yes [01:08:38,288]: The rage that he displays at the leadership the religious leadership is just like it’s nothing else [01:08:45,828]: It comes right off the page [01:08:47,028]: And and which is so ironic because you see evangelicals who are like you need to be more Christlike [01:08:51,468]: Right [01:08:51,888]: You need to be which means like wimpy and weak and inoffensive sweeping into the temple and knocking over tables and driving people out with a whip [01:08:58,248]: And then and then going into the temple and giving this parable right where of the vineyard where he’s like yeah first uh I sent uh I sent this servant you beat him and and stoned him [01:09:09,968]: And then you killed the other another one [01:09:11,768]: Well I’ll send my son and they’ll respect him [01:09:15,468]: And then it’s the air right [01:09:18,328]: If we kill him we could take the vineyard for ourselves [01:09:21,108]: And yes [01:09:21,828]: What what’s he going to do to these people [01:09:23,348]: Well he’s going to he’s going to come and he’s going to destroy all of them [01:09:27,128]: And it’s like and they knew right [01:09:30,768]: The hilarious thing I think like reading the gospels is right [01:09:34,688]: Jesus is giving parables [01:09:35,808]: And the point of the parables is actually to conceal what he’s saying [01:09:39,088]: And people are like whoa what’s that [01:09:40,488]: Even his own disciples are like what what’s that about [01:09:42,808]: I don’t really know [01:09:43,568]: Like it doesn’t make any sense but he’s telling parables to the chief priests and the Pharisees and all the leaders of Israel [01:09:48,468]: And they’re like oh that’s about us [01:09:51,108]: I think it says they understood it was about them [01:09:53,388]: They knew [01:09:53,908]: And they decided to kill him [01:09:54,808]: Yeah [01:09:55,008]: Yeah [01:09:55,188]: So they they the parables are like obscured everybody else [01:09:58,008]: But when it’s about them like oh he’s talking about us [01:10:01,708]: Right [01:10:02,188]: And and but but talk about speaking truth to power [01:10:06,048]: I mean like yeah I don’t know how that Jesus was kept for me as a you know lifelong church goer [01:10:13,988]: I have no idea [01:10:15,208]: Yeah [01:10:15,548]: Yeah [01:10:15,908]: But you just read it [01:10:16,748]: I would recommend everyone read it [01:10:17,868]: Non Christians alike [01:10:19,068]: But he’s there [01:10:19,908]: He’s right there [01:10:20,848]: And especially the gospel of Matthew [01:10:22,068]: I love it because it is [01:10:23,868]: But Mark too [01:10:24,288]: Yeah [01:10:24,408]: All four [01:10:25,088]: I mean obviously all four of them but like Matthew in particular is so cool to me because like you read it and the way it’s organized is Jesus is recapitulating the entire history of Israel [01:10:37,128]: Right [01:10:38,108]: So right in the very beginning he he goes out into the wilderness for 40 days and 40 nights [01:10:43,668]: Right [01:10:44,168]: Just like Israel’s in the wilderness for 40 years [01:10:46,308]: Right [01:10:46,828]: It’s tempted by Satan [01:10:48,288]: He comes right after after he crosses the or goes and is baptized in the Jordan is like crossing the Red Sea goes into the wilderness [01:10:56,788]: Then after that right he is he’s preaching a sermon on a mountain expounding the law which is which is Moses on Sinai [01:11:04,968]: Right [01:11:05,488]: And and after this he’s telling parables of the kingdom like he’s like he’s David or like he’s Solomon writing Proverbs writing Psalms [01:11:14,508]: And then he begins all of these excoriations of of the high priesthood and the Pharisees and all the leaders of Israel [01:11:21,548]: Well what’s that like [01:11:22,288]: It’s like the prophets [01:11:23,608]: Right [01:11:24,028]: So he’s he’s reliving the whole history of Israel in his his lifetime [01:11:29,508]: What’s Matthew doing there [01:11:30,668]: What’s the Holy Spirit doing there [01:11:31,868]: It’s showing that Jesus is Israel right [01:11:34,288]: He’s the true Israel right [01:11:35,488]: He is the as as the apostle Paul says he’s the chosen seed of Abraham right [01:11:40,468]: He’s the one that carries out Israel’s mission which is you just dovetail I’m kind of doing the weave too [01:11:47,388]: Like like I’m doing the weave [01:11:50,588]: It’s Trumpian [01:11:51,648]: It is [01:11:52,648]: People I mean when I’m preaching people are like Andrew you’re you’re doing the weave of President Trump [01:11:56,928]: I try not to [01:11:57,688]: But by Trump it’s interesting [01:11:58,268]: I try not to do the hand motions and things like him too [01:12:01,428]: But we all have our own rhetorical style [01:12:03,628]: But it it’s interesting because right like the whole dispensational thing where it’s like okay right the old covenant still somehow sort of exists [01:12:14,628]: And there’s still this you know this distinction between Jew and Gentile out there [01:12:19,628]: Well like the whole New Testament talks about this that no right those that that separation that existed in the old covenant right they’re they’re brought together as one in Jesus who is the true Israel the true the successful Israel the Israel that’s obedient and goes to the death and is vindicated by being resurrected [01:12:39,448]: Right [01:12:40,248]: And and that that old covenant it’s done [01:12:42,308]: It’s over [01:12:42,968]: Right [01:12:43,288]: Those distinctions between Jew and Gentile they’re gone [01:12:45,248]: It says that only about a thousand times in every book of the New Testament [01:12:49,648]: So to come to the opposite conclusion does make you sort of wonder like have you read it [01:12:53,968]: Yeah [01:12:54,608]: And and and exactly [01:12:57,128]: And and and whether you believe it or not that’s just not what it says at all [01:13:00,428]: Yeah [01:13:00,688]: And so you think about that and it’s like okay the these two are brought together [01:13:04,268]: I mean the whole book of acts is is about this right [01:13:07,268]: That the the the Holy Spirit not only goes to the apostles and the Jews in in Jerusalem but the Gentiles get it too [01:13:15,088]: Like Peter goes to Cornelius and he believes and and now here is this Roman right [01:13:20,008]: This Gentile [01:13:20,748]: And and the interesting thing about that too is there’s this misconception that the only people in the old Testament that believed in God were Jews but it’s like everywhere they go there are these Gentile God fears that believe in God [01:13:33,528]: And Cornelius is one of them in the New Testament [01:13:36,368]: Well it’s it’s all through it’s all through the New Testament [01:13:38,808]: And in fact Jesus calls out repeatedly Gentiles as the most faithful [01:13:44,768]: Yes [01:13:45,048]: Repeatedly [01:13:45,588]: Yes [01:13:46,008]: The Roman officer [01:13:47,388]: Yes [01:13:47,928]: Yes [01:13:48,408]: Again [01:13:48,928]: Like I mean he he says this in in the gospels [01:13:52,568]: Like he’s he’s talking about right the faithful or faithless and adulterous generation right [01:13:57,488]: He’s talking about Israel [01:13:58,988]: And he’s saying in in the resurrection right Sodom and Gomorrah and Tyre and Sidon they’ll they’ll rise right [01:14:09,528]: Sodom destroyed for trying to rape angels [01:14:12,588]: They will rise up in judgment on this generation because if the things that I’m doing right [01:14:18,388]: If the son of God appeared to them and preached to them they would have repented right [01:14:23,348]: If and and and Nineveh right this Gentile city in the Old Testament of Assyrians right [01:14:30,168]: Brutal bloodthirsty people right [01:14:32,028]: Noah shows up or Jonah shows up and he he preaches and his only message is 40 days Nineveh is going to be destroyed right [01:14:43,248]: He’s he’s gleeful about this [01:14:46,008]: And the king hears about it [01:14:47,688]: He repents [01:14:48,568]: He makes all the people in the city wear sackcloth and ashes [01:14:53,008]: And it’s like well I don’t really know what’s going to happen but this this looks serious [01:14:57,748]: We better repent [01:14:59,848]: And it I mean we’re going to go into deep weeds here if you’ll let me you know this is I’m not filibustering like like President Putin did but but right [01:15:12,508]: You look at the book of Jonah in particular he is he he flees not because he’s afraid of the Assyrians right [01:15:22,368]: He like that’s the what people think is like he’s scared to go there [01:15:26,088]: No like you read the end of the book of Jonah and he he’s arguing with God at the end [01:15:31,348]: And he he’s saying I knew that you would show mercy on these people right [01:15:36,388]: I knew you would show them mercy [01:15:38,008]: That’s why I didn’t want to go [01:15:39,208]: He was trying to he was trying to outwit God like trick God into not being gracious to these Gentiles because he knows in in the law right [01:15:50,648]: In Deuteronomy right [01:15:52,388]: One of the signs that Israel is about to be cursed is that he is going to call nations right [01:15:58,388]: The Gentiles right [01:15:59,548]: Nations that do not know him to himself [01:16:01,728]: He’s going to go to the Gentiles and away from Israel [01:16:04,308]: And that means judgment is going to come upon Israel [01:16:06,928]: So Jonah knows this and he’s like I am going the opposite direction [01:16:11,048]: I’m going to Tarshish to Spain because I am not going to let God judge my people right [01:16:17,528]: That’s why he’s angry about this [01:16:18,848]: And it gets even more interesting because Jesus talks about the sign of Jonah to Israel and people think oh well Jonah’s he’s talking about the resurrection being in in the ground for three days and three nights [01:16:31,188]: And it’s like that’s I mean that’s that’s symbolic that’s typological [01:16:34,848]: He’s drawing on the typology but it’s not about that [01:16:39,128]: It’s that what’s going to happen [01:16:41,748]: Gentiles are going to hear the gospel and not you right [01:16:45,888]: And that judgment is going to come on Israel right [01:16:48,788]: Judgment is going to come on this generation [01:16:50,568]: And that’s what Jesus says at the beginning of Matthew 24 is these things are going to happen in this generation right [01:16:57,008]: He’s walking with the disciples in the temple and they’re they’re marveling at the we would marvel too [01:17:02,208]: I mean beautiful like the whole thing is clad in gold on the outside is gorgeous beautiful giant I mean massive stones that you it boggles your mind how human beings could move these things and build this stuff without you know modern power tools right [01:17:15,448]: They’re marveling at the the temple and Jesus is like what are you looking at right [01:17:21,628]: Do you not know that not one stone is going to be left upon another very soon [01:17:26,688]: And they’re like oh boy when’s this going to happen [01:17:29,948]: Well 37 years later actually [01:17:32,048]: Well I think it’s we can we can debate you know 40 years later but I’ll be autistic on that point [01:17:39,348]: The second revolt [01:17:40,808]: Yeah [01:17:41,008]: It’s normally said to be [01:17:42,768]: Yeah [01:17:42,988]: I think the resurrection is in 30 [01:17:44,368]: I mean we’re we’re coming up on 2000 years of the Romans [01:17:49,708]: It’s actually crazy [01:17:51,648]: The effort that they I mean I’m sure you’ve been there to the site [01:17:55,448]: I haven’t [01:17:56,028]: I maybe one day [01:17:57,128]: Oh you should go [01:17:58,448]: Jerusalem is the most amazing city and they’ve anyway but but they just went to such a great effort to separate every stone [01:18:07,268]: Destroy everything [01:18:07,908]: So how much they didn’t just burn it and sack it [01:18:10,428]: Got it [01:18:11,308]: But they actually dismantled it [01:18:13,468]: Yes [01:18:14,088]: Piece by piece [01:18:14,648]: How many slaves did that take [01:18:16,568]: How much money did that take [01:18:17,848]: How much effort human effort did [01:18:19,448]: Why would you do that [01:18:20,268]: Why would you bother to do that [01:18:21,768]: Yeah [01:18:22,169]: So okay [01:18:24,088]: I just want and I’m so sorry for the discursions but I want to get to your destination which is Tennessee [01:18:32,428]: Yeah [01:18:32,908]: Can you be a lot more specific about what you’re doing there [01:18:36,368]: I know there have been attempts to paint this as some sort of white supremacist enclave or theocracy or whatever [01:18:43,848]: What actually is it [01:18:44,669]: Can you describe it [01:18:45,408]: No [01:18:46,169]: So so really it’s it’s a you know a real estate venture to build to build communities to build [01:18:54,068]: And and I’m even hesitant you know to call it like subdivision because it’s not subdivisions [01:18:57,988]: It’ll be it’s large properties you know two three 10 acre lots where people [01:19:04,109]: And someone already bought the land [01:19:05,708]: Yes [01:19:06,028]: The Ridge Runners bought the parcels [01:19:07,128]: It’s being divided up and sold you know as we speak [01:19:10,229]: And one of them you know my church is going to build a church like right at the center [01:19:15,588]: And so it’s so imagine you know so there’s kind of two kinds of development that happen or really just one kind [01:19:22,428]: It’s just build massive cul de sac subdivisions houses for black rock that kind of thing [01:19:30,328]: And and like that’s not how America was built right [01:19:33,928]: Like my town you know is founded in the in the middle of the 19th century [01:19:38,128]: And like the first thing that gets built like everywhere else would were churches and schools [01:19:44,408]: And that’s not featured anywhere in any you know subdivisions or or real estate developments at all [01:19:50,428]: There’s no place for people to congregate and to have an actual community [01:19:53,328]: Yeah [01:19:53,648]: Yeah [01:19:53,908]: Like you you see all of these ones [01:19:55,289]: I mean I’ve seen some of the plans in like places around like the Dallas Fort Worth area where it’s like they have a lazy river and they have all these nice amenities like that [01:20:04,088]: There’s never like a church right [01:20:06,368]: There’s never any anything that the old America once had [01:20:12,208]: And and so yeah my my church is going to build it’s building their families from all over the country [01:20:19,718]: Some of them you know know me I’ve I’ve known them and they’ve been dying to get out of their their blue state city you know horrible existence out of the traditional subdivision into into a place where they can have land where they can have you know have some chickens maybe a cow like like live like Americans you know used to and and be out in nature and and and enjoy you know beautiful things right [01:20:46,229]: To build something like that because that that’s happening like everywhere like it’s development right [01:20:50,948]: All especially in Tennessee like it’s it’s like here in Florida just exploding right [01:20:56,928]: So many people moving there because they’re trying to get out of these places [01:21:00,428]: And and so what gets built right black rock style subdivisions and and just hideous buildings [01:21:07,789]: And and very anti human right [01:21:10,028]: And and so this is development that is is human scaled [01:21:13,808]: It’s built for people to enjoy actual life right [01:21:17,688]: For for people to to congregate in the same area where they hold you know similar values right [01:21:24,848]: You don’t want to you don’t want to live in a place where everybody hates you and hates what you think and hates that you you love Donald Trump you love your country you love your God [01:21:34,868]: I’ve done that [01:21:35,748]: Yeah [01:21:36,088]: You don’t you don’t you don’t want that [01:21:38,028]: And and tons of people it was like oh well wouldn’t it be great if I had neighbors that you know we we pretty much agreed on on everything we we we you know agree on everything politically culturally all of that where you and then you don’t even have to talk about it [01:21:50,789]: It’s just have normal normal life together right [01:21:53,448]: Your kids can play with their kids and and grow up together right [01:21:56,908]: That’s that’s the kind of thing that you know that’s being built there in Tennessee [01:22:01,648]: And so I’m I’m so excited to be a part of it [01:22:05,408]: The fact that there’s a church at the center of it is is a red flag for the authorities in most places [01:22:11,388]: And certainly for the cultural commentators and the and and the media it was any other religious institution [01:22:18,028]: Of course it would be it’d be great [01:22:19,928]: That would be your community [01:22:21,068]: They’re praising the the Muslim communities in Texas for instance right [01:22:25,428]: Or the illegal alien communities in Texas or whatever but a Christian church is and I don’t think any Christian should be surprised [01:22:31,988]: I mean the Bible says you’re going to be persecuted for believing this [01:22:34,888]: So and they are all right prediction come true [01:22:38,648]: But tell us the response to this this dangerous venture of yours [01:22:43,109]: Well you know like locally the people in town are and in the surrounding area even despite like the news attacking us and things like that the people that I that I’ve I’ve spoken to the people I’ve met in the town are are very you know they’re they’re like like very enthusiastic actually that especially when they see you know see the things that I do see the podcast I do or various things like oh like you’re not at all like the TV man said you are [01:23:16,158]: And of course these are people that you know that we’ve been describing like they they don’t trust the media they don’t trust journalists [01:23:21,919]: So they’re already they’re already just distrusting of of that [01:23:25,678]: I’m like oh it just seems like you really like Donald Trump and the United States and Americans and the constitution and our freedoms [01:23:34,438]: And I was like you seem like a just normal you know conservative kind of guy [01:23:38,979]: And I’m like yeah I I am that’s I’m an open open book [01:23:43,238]: Like I there’s no you know what you see is what you get [01:23:46,318]: What I what I believe I earnestly believe [01:23:49,458]: And so so people are very have been very very kind [01:23:54,578]: But the state legislature hasn’t tried to mess with your zoning permits or anything like that [01:23:59,539]: No [01:23:59,738]: And and and the the thing is it’s like well the company itself is not saying well this is a community like that would you know violate the Fair Housing Act right [01:24:08,178]: To say this is a Christian only community [01:24:11,318]: It’s just that my church is allowed to build a church there right [01:24:16,008]: There’s no law against that at all [01:24:20,218]: And and I can I can call up friends and say hey you want to move here and be part of our thing [01:24:25,718]: What are the costs like [01:24:27,539]: Oh the cost of living is extremely low [01:24:29,998]: Like there’s no there’s no income tax in Tennessee just like like Florida [01:24:35,378]: And and so it’s it’s especially compared to large cities you know much much cheaper place to live [01:24:42,738]: So a lot of people are like oh wow that’s only going to cost me this much for a home [01:24:47,178]: It would cost me two or three times that if I were to build something like this [01:24:50,398]: And I get land to have [01:24:52,838]: Are houses being built there [01:24:54,598]: They’re starting to be [01:24:55,598]: Yeah [01:24:55,778]: Yeah [01:24:56,058]: My my my friend CJ actually is right in the right in the beginning stages of of building his his dream house [01:25:02,998]: He’s going to be one of the first ones [01:25:06,098]: That’s quite a concept [01:25:08,278]: Do you think that and you’ve written a book about this called The Boniface Option which was controversial but also loved like all good things [01:25:18,618]: That’s right [01:25:20,298]: Maybe you’re speaking self referentially but or [01:25:23,098]: No no no no no I’m not [01:25:24,859]: No I was just saying like you know it’s pistachio ice cream you know like not everyone loves it but the people who do really do [01:25:31,098]: Really do [01:25:31,298]: Yeah [01:25:31,578]: So but I think you suggest that that like it’s it’s time for for for sincere Christians to be in fellowship with each other like physically [01:25:42,119]: Yeah [01:25:42,438]: Yeah [01:25:42,818]: Especially cause you know you see you know sort of like online communities where where people are like oh I I I like this pastor [01:25:50,698]: I like the sermons that he preaches [01:25:53,058]: Right [01:25:53,438]: I I I agree with this theology and I’m being formed in shape and you kind of you band into into groups online where you you sort of self sort and and there are these massive communities on on the internet [01:26:07,558]: And it’s like well what if what if we took that this like digital community that exists and what if we made it in real life [01:26:14,499]: Right [01:26:14,979]: What would that that be like [01:26:16,418]: Right [01:26:17,259]: And that’s kind of sort of what at least at least for me what I’m trying to do is what if we we bring people together in real life [01:26:26,518]: What kind of stuff can we do [01:26:27,698]: Like I’m trying to just make it on my own right [01:26:30,259]: Just eke out an existence [01:26:31,739]: But what if we all did that together and multiplied you know our our respective bandwidths right [01:26:40,018]: What kind of stuff would we be able to accomplish [01:26:41,318]: And you expect to have businesses there too [01:26:43,298]: Yeah [01:26:43,479]: People are already moving their their businesses there [01:26:46,379]: Yeah [01:26:47,639]: And and the the exciting thing is and it wouldn’t be just like the people moving in right there [01:26:52,598]: The only ones working at these businesses like it will it will help the people that are from there the local community which is you know throughout the you know because of macroeconomic forces geopolitical things things that were done to our country all all the manufacturing and and real good jobs that used to exist in a place like this those are all mostly gone [01:27:13,698]: And so what would it look like if we brought those things back right [01:27:17,578]: How would it how would it bless the people in that area [01:27:20,698]: Right [01:27:20,999]: That’s that’s a major part of it [01:27:22,759]: Yeah [01:27:23,239]: Yeah [01:27:24,098]: And and so that’s that’s the exciting thing is well we can we we come to a place like this [01:27:31,658]: We bring our our friends that have you know some of them have remote jobs and and and good incomes [01:27:36,898]: They can they’ll people will spend money locally and businesses will spring up because of that [01:27:42,639]: People will bring businesses and need employees and and the you know the people in the haven’t for for quite a while [01:27:53,739]: That’s the pioneer spirit for people who are interested [01:27:56,018]: What’s the name of it [01:27:56,979]: This again [01:27:57,999]: A Ridge Runner [01:27:58,538]: So the Highland Rim Project [01:28:01,298]: Highland Rim Project [01:28:02,558]: Highland Rim Project [01:28:03,458]: Yeah [01:28:03,798]: So the website is a RidgeRunnerUSA com [01:28:09,278]: So I have one last question for you [01:28:11,318]: Do you expect I mean what you described in your home state in your hometown is basically the persecution of Christians the people who built the United States [01:28:20,678]: And that is a trend [01:28:22,038]: Do you expect where do you expect that trend to go to the extent you can predict it [01:28:25,859]: That’s the most difficult thing of course always making predictions [01:28:29,398]: But I think it will go in in two directions [01:28:33,958]: So you know you have the left I mean you see this right now just how violent they are [01:28:39,458]: They’re just itching to destroy things destroy people [01:28:43,078]: They’re burning Teslas [01:28:46,739]: They shot President Trump right [01:28:50,479]: They’re very very very violent people [01:28:52,678]: And of course like the political apparatus on their side loves that right [01:28:56,158]: They never condemn it [01:28:56,999]: They never say these things are bad [01:28:59,318]: Of course [01:28:59,338]: And we saw the same thing [01:29:00,318]: It’s their youth brigades [01:29:01,158]: Yeah [01:29:01,558]: Their militia [01:29:02,239]: We saw the same thing in 2020 right [01:29:03,298]: Yeah [01:29:03,778]: The same exact thing [01:29:05,918]: And so I think you know and there have been you know instances of churches being shot at and burned down and bombed and things like this [01:29:14,458]: I think those kind of things will continue to happen and continue to get worse especially in blue states and blue cities where it’s basically allowed you know George Soros just handpicks all the prosecutors and they’re not going to enforce these laws [01:29:30,098]: And but on the flip side they’re still like tens of millions of Christians very conservative evangelicals and the like [01:29:42,278]: They just got President Trump elected right [01:29:46,218]: And political power is being wielded [01:29:50,098]: And that’s always the thing is like for so many years we were told that no no no [01:29:58,418]: Our enemies have all this political power but we’re going to restrain ourselves [01:30:02,139]: We’re going to follow the Constitution and we’re just going to expect them to disarm themselves for reasons [01:30:09,398]: And that you know sort of way of thinking among conservatives is quickly being discarded that the only thing you could do is confront power with power right [01:30:22,778]: And President Trump and Vice President Vance they’re wielding power [01:30:26,958]: And and that wielding of power is going to defend Christians in this country [01:30:32,338]: Yes it will [01:30:33,098]: And and so I think like that conflict will continue to become more stark [01:30:38,518]: Right [01:30:38,838]: The two visions for the country will will become more black and white [01:30:45,318]: It will become more obvious that that Christians need to band together to leave places where they have no protection whatsoever where people like Tim Walls or or the the next governor of Minnesota probably Keith Ellison who is an Antifa Muslim like they I mean that was a terrifying thing too [01:31:07,999]: It’s like this guy maybe he knows who I am and what what could that guy do to me [01:31:14,018]: Right [01:31:14,499]: To leave a place like that where you will very likely be persecuted [01:31:18,678]: Right [01:31:19,158]: They they want to have a foil like the whole thing on on Christian nationalism [01:31:23,058]: I mean this is why why I wrote a book on that is in twenty twenty two the media is just attacking like normal decent evangelical people that happen to like Donald Trump and have skepticism about the election the vaccine everything and and make them the boogeyman [01:31:39,278]: And they would always say white Christian nationalism [01:31:41,479]: They always put those things together because they happen to be white [01:31:44,818]: And even though they espouse no white nationalist tendencies at all they have no race theology whatsoever whatsoever at all [01:31:52,038]: Like they’re they’re like wow I’m totally colorblind [01:31:53,859]: They have a universalist [01:31:56,038]: Absolutely [01:31:56,438]: Unlike the fascists who run the U S media who are like Nazi race mongers total totally how many people of color we’re going to count you by race which they literally do in this country [01:32:05,879]: Who’s the Nazi [01:32:08,119]: I know that they don’t do that in church [01:32:10,678]: Now we’ll come to your church like how many blacks do we have today [01:32:12,938]: How many Hispanics how many Pacific Islanders [01:32:14,458]: Do you like we have Christians [01:32:15,759]: Well the evangelical leadership definitely does [01:32:17,859]: Right [01:32:18,098]: They well they’ve fallen for this [01:32:19,879]: Yeah of course [01:32:21,259]: But never forget how poisonous it is [01:32:23,678]: Absolutely [01:32:24,058]: Yeah I think [01:32:24,999]: Yeah it is [01:32:25,938]: It’s like well no we just have Christians [01:32:27,518]: Right [01:32:28,078]: And so no I think I think those those trends will continue [01:32:33,639]: And but I’m hopeful [01:32:35,538]: I’m optimistic [01:32:36,518]: I’m espousing this optimistic eschatology [01:32:39,598]: So of course I’m I’m optimistic [01:32:41,658]: I’m always always hoping for the very best [01:32:45,359]: And I think that especially if if the kind of evangelical Christianity right [01:32:52,499]: Historic Christianity the the Christian that built Christendom that built the West that built America if that comes back right the kind of Christianity that that sees Jesus in the gospels like we were talking about earlier as he’s a man right a man that is on a mission and is totally courageous and and attacking God’s enemies right to their face knowing it’s going to get him killed right [01:33:17,538]: That kind of Christianity that preaches like that that speaks like that that that sees a God that is real and is is is your God [01:33:28,359]: And he is he he loves you and he loves what’s true and good and right [01:33:34,178]: And there’s justice [01:33:35,479]: And he is going to bring justice to all of his enemies right to all of the people that hate him all the people that that do just monstrous evil right that kind of Christianity that makes a comeback in America [01:33:47,818]: Well that’s that’s an America that has a future [01:33:51,918]: I have to say I think that the hallmarks of courage among them are cheerfulness and optimism [01:33:58,938]: I do think that [01:34:00,958]: And you have that you know for a dangerous theocratic fascist you seem very optimistic and cheerful [01:34:07,999]: So thank you for spending all this time [01:34:09,578]: I really appreciate it [01:34:10,658]: Thank you so much for having me [01:34:11,859]: It was great to meet you [01:34:12,859]: Yes [01:34:13,198]: Nice meeting you as well [01:34:17,259]: Thank you [01:34:18,058]: So it turns out that YouTube is suppressing this show on one level [01:34:22,218]: It’s not surprising [01:34:23,398]: That’s what they do [01:34:24,038]: But on another level it’s shocking with everything that’s going on in the world right now all the change taking place in our economy and our politics with the wars on the cusp of fighting right now [01:34:34,278]: Google has decided you should have less information rather than more [01:34:38,218]: And that is totally wrong [01:34:40,739]: It’s immoral [01:34:41,759]: What can you do about it [01:34:43,578]: Well we could whine about it [01:34:44,979]: That’s a waste of time [01:34:46,198]: We’re not in charge of Google [01:34:47,139]: Or we could find a way around it a way that you could actually get information that is true not intentionally deceptive [01:34:53,198]: The way to do that on YouTube we think it’s to subscribe to our channel [01:34:57,178]: Subscribe [01:34:57,798]: Hit the little bell icon to be notified when we upload and share this video [01:35:02,158]: That way you’ll have a much higher chance of hearing actual news and information [01:35:06,999]: So we hope that you’ll do thatTranscribe your media with TRNSCRB.
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